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Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

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Old 22-01.-2005, 01:32 AM   #121
Perro Loco
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Default Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Losing weight has an effect not only on going uphill but also on the flat.

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

Use the above link, set the watts at o and enter 30 mph or 50 kph and see what the difference in power output at various weights is to maintain this.
Dropping 8-10 Kg substantialy reduces the amount of power output needed to maintain this speed. Add in that over a three week tour that extra weight is going to have a toll on you.
While I don't know if Armstrong was or has used performence enhancing drugs lossing weight helps a hell of a lot. Especially over a three week tour.

I remember reading Indurain stating that losing weight helped improved his time trialing and win the tour in 91. He wasn't winning or dominating time trials previous to this.
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Old 22-01.-2005, 05:07 AM   #122
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Default Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt N
I've read in several places that LA has consistently denied any form of doping, etc. However, the only direct statements I can find turn out to be somewhat qualified statements about being the most tested sportsperson on the planet, not currently taking drugs, etc. Can anyone point me to a categorical, unqualified statement by LA that he does not now and never has used any banned substance or method?


Cheers


Will this do?

Lance Response To French Doping Investigation


Lance Armstrong issued the following statement Thursday, Jan 20 in response to media reports of a French judge's decision to investigate doping allegations made against him last year in a highly publicized book.

"Let me make one thing emphatically clear: I believe in clean and fair competition. As I have said before, I do not use -- and have never used -- performance-enhancing drugs. I am disappointed in the judge's decision to open this investigation without having talked to me first. "

"I will make myself available anytime and anywhere to meet with the investigators in this case. They are also welcome to review my long history of tests for performance-enhancing drugs, which I have never failed. Last year alone I was tested 22 times by ASO, the UCI, WADA and USADA. I will be competing in Paris-Nice in March. I am confident my name will be cleared, and I look forward to racing in France for years to come."

SOURCE: Capital Sports and Entertainment, Austin, TX
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Old 22-01.-2005, 06:16 AM   #123
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Default Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

I know a lot of people feel that the Europeans are critical of Lance' success, (and some are), and deliberately target him, but bear in mind that they also investigate their own riders, and just because Lance is an American, and successful doesn't mean he should be exempt from investigation.

The judge was within his rights to order the investigation, Lance will have to put up with it. But certainly the only way to eliminate drugs from th sport is to keep investigating. I don't know whether Lance dopes, i hope not, but some things are always going to look suspicious.

Last edited by oldnbusted : 22-01.-2005 at 06:29 AM. Reason: i forgot to write something
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Old 22-01.-2005, 07:55 AM   #126
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Default Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

the one test that seems to be working is the EPO test - and that has only really been in place since Sydney. HGH - no test. Insulin - no test. Autologous (with your own blood) transfusion - no test. Cortisone can be tested for and Armstrong fell foul of that.

These are not 'super juices' or amazing drug cocktails that have taken hundreds of people to develop. You can buy HGH off the Internet for god's sake. What they are are drugs with medical applications that can be used to help recovery - and we all know that the rider who recovers best wins the race.

22 tests - well, let's see, how many of those would have taken place at the Tour? Stage winner and yellow jersey get tested automatically - so that makes 12 of those tests at the Tour alone...
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Old 22-01.-2005, 08:52 AM   #127
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Default Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer
And the Subaru crashes into a big tree.


Did they ever test for insulin or Actovegin? No way!

Lance admitted to possesion of both on his website in december 2000, re: the medical waste discarded by his staff in the July TDF.

Actovegin (calf blood) was not a banned product in 2000. It is now, though I am unclear how it can be tested for. Maybe Tyler was a first case.

Drug testing in cycling has been very weak, certainly weak throughout Lance's victory marches.

The UCI just signed the WADA code of ethics AFTER Lance's TDF win #6. Why so bloody late?


The anti-Lance crowd sits around parsing his quoted words like Bill Clinton in a grand jury deposition and salivates: "Look, he's never categorically denied any performance enhancing drugs" (although he has a number of times)

In response to the direct question I put up the quote and no one is big enough to say, well there he is denying it categorically. Seems like your minds are impermeable to logic or evidence.
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Old 22-01.-2005, 11:07 AM   #129
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Default Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer
Maybe Lance's numerous versions of drugs in his car ....


Wow. Even Lance's car takes drugs? This is worse than I thought.
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Old 24-01.-2005, 12:21 PM   #132
Matt N
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Default Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hombredesubaru
Will this do?

Lance Response To French Doping Investigation


Lance Armstrong issued the following statement Thursday, Jan 20 in response to media reports of a French judge's decision to investigate doping allegations made against him last year in a highly publicized book.

"Let me make one thing emphatically clear: I believe in clean and fair competition. As I have said before, I do not use -- and have never used -- performance-enhancing drugs. I am disappointed in the judge's decision to open this investigation without having talked to me first. "

"I will make myself available anytime and anywhere to meet with the investigators in this case. They are also welcome to review my long history of tests for performance-enhancing drugs, which I have never failed. Last year alone I was tested 22 times by ASO, the UCI, WADA and USADA. I will be competing in Paris-Nice in March. I am confident my name will be cleared, and I look forward to racing in France for years to come."

SOURCE: Capital Sports and Entertainment, Austin, TX


I saw this statement by LA after I posted my question about his previous responses to doping allegations.

A few further queries:

* he denies drug use but where does he deny blood doping?

* has he previously made a categorical denial of drug use and/or blood doping (I can't seem to find one)?

* why on earth should the judge consult a suspect prior to launching an investigation?

Cheers
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Old 25-01.-2005, 09:42 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Flyer
That's nice. But believing and doing are apparently not the same thing in Lance's world. Wind tunnel testing in multi-million dollar Jet research facilities, high tech skin suits, and other extreme equipment engineering are NOT offered to all competitors.



So Armstrong now has an unfair equipment advantage? I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that Ullrich could use some of his $3 million salary to get access to any wind tunnel he wants. I would also hazard to guess that every top pro (if they're smart) undergoes wind tunnel testing for time trial position. As for the high tech skin suit, I think you can buy them from Nike if you want, but I doubt it will mean the difference between 1st and 2nd place.
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Old 25-01.-2005, 12:10 PM   #135
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Default Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer
Let's review for the benefit of objective readers:

Doping Juniors age 18 and under.
Lance's fellow National Junior Teammates Erich Kaiter & Greg Strock admit to receiving 3-4 injections per day while racing in Europe, in July 1990. Lance was with them on that trip--the whole season too.

Greg, Erich & Lance all got gravely ill. Auto-immune dysfunction, chrons colitis and testicular cancer.

One recovered became rich and infamous, the other two are suing Rene Wenzel & USA Cycling for doping minors without informed consent. Chris Carmichael settled early on, and both he and Lance are legally dismissed.

1990 is an important year to reflect upon as it was when EPO began it widespread roll out into the peloton. Invented in 1983, it was purely clinical and secretive until 1988 or so. Laurent Fignon believes that in 1990, EPO became standard medicine amongst GC contenders.

Mentor gone bad?
In 1988 Eddie Merckx admitted to using drugs throughout th 1970s. This after years of denials and three positive tests for stimulants, (Giro, Lombardy & Flanders)

Lance became close to Eddie Merckx while at Motorola and rode on his bike frames. Eddie became a mentor to Lance. On or about November 1995 Eddie Merckx introduced Lance to Michele Ferrari, then infamous for EPO jokes & Orange Juice and a protege of Francesco Conconi, the father of blood doping and mastermind of the Team USA 1984 Olympic blood transfusions.

Lance began working with Ferrari immediately. Lance road strong the very next season winning the Fleche Wallone while getting pipped on the line by Pascal Richard at Liege Bastogne Liege. He also won a another TDF stage.

By October 1996 Lance announced his advanced cancer.

On May 8, 1998 Mauro Gianetti nearly died from an overdose of PFC, perafloracarbon an HBOC oxygen booster agent. He spent 10 days in ICU, recovered and is now Chris Horner's boss at Sanier Duval.
This doping mistake happened in Mauro's important Swiss Race, the Tour of Romandie.

One month later, Willy Voet, high on his Team's drug The Belgian Mix, a compound of Heroin, Cocaine & Morhine was caught out on a secondary road reentering France from Belgium.

He was busted big time as he had massive supplies of EPO, Growth Hormones, Corticosteroids, Belgian Mix, saline feeds, testosterone easter eggs, blood thinning agents and plenty of other drugs.

The 1998 TDF was ruined. Nearly 50% of the field quit or was DQed or was threatened with DQ. Eventually, Marco Pantani won the race.

Marco Pantani is now dead at age 34.

Lance returned from cancer in just one year and claimed 4th in the Vuelta and 4th in the World Championship RR won by---you guessed it Oscar Camenzind. Oscar went on to go EPO positive in July 2004 and is now retired.

May, 1999
Lance proclaimed that doping was "finito" within the peloton. The very next day Pantani was DQed for an illegal hematocrit level.

July 1999
Lance wins the TDF amongst doping rumors. He is able to TUE his way out of a cortisone test failure.

July 2000
French TV-3 films USPO dumping medical waste into a dumspter in a small town in the Maritime Alps.
Actovegin (calf blood) and insulin are found.

Lance eventually confirms possesion (whilst claiming medical privacy) on his own website in December 2000--while threatening to bycott the 2001 TDF, unless the French witchhunt stops.

2004
4 Cycling World Champions go EPO positive. Cofidis blows up, Kelme blows up, the Ausralian Junior and Senior Track programs are tained by horse growth hormones and spent needles in Mark Frenches dorm room. They weasle out and dominate track in the summer months---just recently losing the Junior Champs medals won in Los Angeles.

Greg LeMond accuses Lance of using EPO and hiding a "big secret".

Lance's staff and one teammate accuse him of using illegal drugs

Lance goes bi-polar (or goes Postal) on Stage 18 and 21 as he chases down Filippo Simeoni (114 GC) and assigns his entire team to mark him, spit on him, blow snott on him, and curse both he and his wife (actually much worse things were spoken) on the ride into Paris.

Lance's doctor is convicted of malpractice. After 10 years of support, Lance publicly terminates the relationship. Privately, who knows?

2005
Yet another doping probe is opened to pursue the truth in the matter of Lance and illegal drug abuses.


Wrap-up:
1) Eddie Merckx is both a doper and Lance's mentor
2) Michele Ferrari is an EPO specialist and doper exraordinary performance druggist. Before Lance there was Rominger, Berzin and work with Moser.
Now he is a convicted quack.

3) Chris Camichael was present as the Junior Coach alongside Rene Wenzel in 1990. This was when doping was active with 17 & 18 year olds. A lawsuit still in progress.

4) Greg Lemond thinks Lance is a doper so do a staff and teammate.

Considering the lawsuits and threats that will follow any public disclosures with Lance, Inc. it is remarkable so many people have stepped forward.

But even without these very credible people, the sport speaks for itself. Lance must dope, because everyone else does---and especially since Lance surrounds himself with dopers and advisors who are active participants of doping.

Conjecture, coincidence? It is one hell of a lot of empirical data, that's for sure.

Or is it a duck who can fetch a newspaper?


Most of this stuff is not empirical data. Heck, it isn't even coincidence. For example, what does Millar's positive have to do with Lance? Or the Festina affair? Or the fact that Pantani ODed while using a recreational drug recreationally? And why throw in the fact that Chris Horner is now back in the European peloton? Is it because he's American?

Other information is extremely misleading. For example, LA did not fail a cortisone test in the 1999 Tour. To do that, he would have had to reach limit. Instead, they detected a tiny, tiny fraction of that. If you remember the UCI statement, it read: "The UCI declares with the utmost firmness that this was an authorized usage, and does not constitute a case of doping."

And what about the Merckx charge? Mentor to Lance? Despite the fact that "mentor" is pushing it big time, so what? So Eddy doped. There is no logical reason to believe that Eddy doping would mean that Lance dopes. Lance is his own man.

Look, it's impossible to prove a negative, so this speculation will go on forever. But I'll say again, there is no reliable or incontravertible evidence that LA doped/dopes/will dope.
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