The misconception of buying the cheapest

Jon Senior

Clive George wrote:
> Yebbut what is there to go wrong with a chainset?

With the higher end Shimano, the difference for chainsets is in finish
and stiffness. This is probably the one area where scrimping is good
(Unless you're concerned about weight).

Jon

David Martin

Pete Biggs wrote:
> David Martin wrote:
>
>
>>If you want to buy a bike that will stay good for years of use, buy
>>the near top range components (Ultegra/Chorus).
>
>
> When you look into the details, this idea seems a bit overstated and
> outdated now. It's more weight saving and slightly better function that
> you tend to get when you pay more.
>

I'm going on experience. I don't intend to change kit every couple of
years but instead like stuff that keeps on working. So far, everythign
that I have bought that was near top has stayed good (with the exception
of one headset) but everything else has given up the ghost in relatively
short order and been less cost effective.

> There's hardly any difference between Chorus and Centaur in terms of
> durability (eg. hubs are virtually identical), and even Chorus and Mirage
> for some parts*. And modern low-end MTB Shimano seems to work and stay
> working well enough.
>
> * For instance, Mirage Ergo levers share many of the same important parts
> and are functionally the same as Chorus (9sp) except have a bushing
> instead of ball bearings, and I've never heard of this bushing wearing
> out.

Fair enough.. I have no experience of Campag kit.

...d

>
> ~PB
>
>

Peter Clinch

David Martin wrote:

> I'm going on experience. I don't intend to change kit every couple of
> years but instead like stuff that keeps on working. So far, everythign
> that I have bought that was near top has stayed good (with the exception
> of one headset) but everything else has given up the ghost in relatively
> short order and been less cost effective.

Very little on my old tourer was original when I gave it away just
before Christmas, but one of the few things that was were the
original 2x6 SIS shifters, that were quite unusual in 1989 but
hardly top of the range! They're still working fine, both levers
and mechs, and I don't recall anything ever giving trouble that a
bit of lube and a waggle didn't fix.

Of course, if you want really seriously reliable and high
performance long term transmission then say hello to your bank
mananger and introduce him to the concept of the Rohloff Speedhub,
or have the council do some serious bulldozing so a fixie is a more
useful prospect in Dundee...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

David Martin

NC wrote:
> David Martin wrote:
>
>>I have winged at length before about how my wonderful road bike has
>>been running the same rear mech for many tens of thousands of km. And
>>it has. I stripped it down and the bushings are smooth ceramic, as
>>they should be.
>>
>>My MTB is not so fortunate.........
>
>
> So buy it some decent bits which will last. I think XT would make sense.

Have done...

>
>>I thought MTB bits were supposed to be robust and long lasting. I
>>never seemed to have this much grief with the road bike.
>
>
> However, its not really comparing apples with apples. Assuming your MTB
> goes off road, the bits get covered in mud, grit & water. Add a bit of oil
> and grease and it's a nasty mix which will wear and corrode most things.
> Whereas a road bike might get a bit of rain water (and nasty salt if you
> don't wash that off in the winter).

Mine rarely gets off road. And when it soes it is typically landrover
tracks or similar unmetalled road.


> I also own a road bike which refuses to wear out. Suntour X1 bits, circa
> 1990. I have only replaced chain, brake pads, and rear block.
> Whereas my mountain bike goes through parts more quickly on fewer miles or
> hours of use.
>
My road bike is 1989 vintage. The only major upgrades have been the
headset, and the brake calipers (until this year when I put some old RSX
shifters on to replace the D/T ones.)

Next move is to chuch the cantis (on the MTB) and get some V-brakes but
this may affect the mudguards.

...d

David Martin

Jon Senior wrote:
> Clive George wrote:
>
>> Yebbut what is there to go wrong with a chainset?
>
>
> With the higher end Shimano, the difference for chainsets is in finish
> and stiffness. This is probably the one area where scrimping is good
> (Unless you're concerned about weight).

The finish has stayed good which means that pedals don't get stuck, the
rings are happy and the square taper is still square and tapered.

I didn't have much choice as getting 165mm cranks in anything but
Ultegra, or spending huge amounts elsewhere, was not an option at the
time. I might swap it for a stronglight compact double as I don't use
the biggest gears and could do with some slightly lower ones.

...d

David Martin

Peter Clinch wrote:
> David Martin wrote:
>
>> I'm going on experience. I don't intend to change kit every couple of
>> years but instead like stuff that keeps on working. So far, everythign
>> that I have bought that was near top has stayed good (with the
>> exception of one headset) but everything else has given up the ghost
>> in relatively short order and been less cost effective.
>
>
> Very little on my old tourer was original when I gave it away just
> before Christmas, but one of the few things that was were the original
> 2x6 SIS shifters, that were quite unusual in 1989 but hardly top of the
> range!

SIS was common on anything from 105 up, and had maybe filtered down to
the lower groupsets.

They're still working fine, both levers and mechs, and I don't
> recall anything ever giving trouble that a bit of lube and a waggle
> didn't fix.

Brakes getting corroded and stiff, gear mechs getting corroded and
stiff, pins getting looser, hubs pitting, bottom brackets pitting.

> Of course, if you want really seriously reliable and high performance
> long term transmission then say hello to your bank mananger and
> introduce him to the concept of the Rohloff Speedhub, or have the
> council do some serious bulldozing so a fixie is a more useful prospect
> in Dundee...

I'm sorely tempted to build a fixie. I now have hubs and pedals so just
need rims, spokes, chainset, sprockets, frame, bars, saddle ...

...d

Simon Mason

"David Martin" <d.m.a.martin@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message >
> My MTB is not so fortunate. It started life with an Acera or Altus.
> Something of that ilk, which lasted for a while. Being mean, I then bought
> a
> shimano reversed cable thinghy which gave up working reliably almost
> before
> it went on the bike (1 week commuting).
>

My Acera rear mech on my hybrid has done 20 000 miles and still works
perfectly well.
--
Simon M.

NC

David Martin wrote:
>
> Next move is to chuch the cantis (on the MTB) and get some V-brakes
> but this may affect the mudguards.

If you're changing them for performance reasons, it may be worth trying the
Shimano straddle wire first (the Y-shaped thing which puts the brake cable
all the way to the cantilever arm with the bolt). It made a significant
difference to a set of STX cantilevers fitted to my partner's road bike, and
may give the performance you desire without upsetting mudguard clearances.


- Nigel

--
NC - Webmaster for http://www.2mm.org.uk/
Replies to newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

Jon Senior

David Martin wrote:
> I'm sorely tempted to build a fixie. I now have hubs and pedals so just
> need rims, spokes, chainset, sprockets, frame, bars, saddle ...

Unless you're trying to resist the temptation;

1) Find an excuse to visit Edinburgh on a Saturday. Take tape measure
2) Go to the Bike Station.
3) Pick an old 10 speed (120mm OLN usually), or use a tape measure.
4) Pay very little for it. The frame for my fixer cost me £7 and came
with a both derailleurs, chainset, rusty chain, centrepull brakes, seat
post, saddle, stem and handlebars. The handlebars and brake levers are
original, all other parts have been replaced.
5) Build fixer.

If you're doing a Sheldon budget job, pick up a 5 speed screw-on
freewheel, wheel while you're there.

While you're in town, visit Cycles (12, West Preston St, Newington).
I've just bought a new 18T sprocket for my fixer at a whopping cost of
£1.50 ("I think that's the first one I've sold for twenty years)! I know
for certain that he has an alloy one in there which weighs
next-to-nothing, but I wanted something a little more durable.

Jon

David Martin

On 16/1/05 3:14 pm, in article 34vemaF4g31h4U1@individual.net, "NC"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

> David Martin wrote:
>>
>> Next move is to chuch the cantis (on the MTB) and get some V-brakes
>> but this may affect the mudguards.
>
> If you're changing them for performance reasons, it may be worth trying the
> Shimano straddle wire first (the Y-shaped thing which puts the brake cable
> all the way to the cantilever arm with the bolt). It made a significant
> difference to a set of STX cantilevers fitted to my partner's road bike, and
> may give the performance you desire without upsetting mudguard clearances.

It already has the shimano straddle wire (the one with a tube the cable runs
through, and a nippled cable for the other side).

A good clean of the front wheel would also help.

...d

David Martin

On 16/1/05 3:25 pm, in article 1105888725.27856.0@despina.uk.clara.net, "Jon
Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote:

> David Martin wrote:
>> I'm sorely tempted to build a fixie. I now have hubs and pedals so just
>> need rims, spokes, chainset, sprockets, frame, bars, saddle ...
>
> Unless you're trying to resist the temptation;
>
> 1) Find an excuse to visit Edinburgh on a Saturday. Take tape measure
Damn. I was there (Edi) last Saturday.

> 2) Go to the Bike Station.
> 3) Pick an old 10 speed (120mm OLN usually), or use a tape measure.
> 4) Pay very little for it. The frame for my fixer cost me £7 and came
> with a both derailleurs, chainset, rusty chain, centrepull brakes, seat
> post, saddle, stem and handlebars. The handlebars and brake levers are
> original, all other parts have been replaced.
> 5) Build fixer.

I'm also after a BMX for making a spin cycle..

>
> If you're doing a Sheldon budget job, pick up a 5 speed screw-on
> freewheel, wheel while you're there.
>
> While you're in town, visit Cycles (12, West Preston St, Newington).
> I've just bought a new 18T sprocket for my fixer at a whopping cost of
> £1.50 ("I think that's the first one I've sold for twenty years)! I know
> for certain that he has an alloy one in there which weighs
> next-to-nothing, but I wanted something a little more durable.

Sounds like a good idea..

...d

Zog The Undeniable

Eatmorepies wrote:

> I use a set of 1997 cranks, I have replaced the
> granny ring twice but the middle and large are original.

For some reason, probably to please the weight weenies, Shimano persist
in fitting alu granny rings to their chainsets. Stainless steel is the
way to go for anything that small.

Steph Peters

Mike Causer <mikec@firstnamelastname.com.invalid> of wrote:

>On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:28:36 +0000, David Martin wrote:
>
>> and making bagels and bread,
>
>Do you have a good recipe for bagels with UK-available ingredients? I've
>not managed to make anything even remotely resembling the taste of a good
>NYC bagel here.

Trundle over to uk.food+drink.misc where Bagels have been discussed this
week. I haven't tried it so I'm not vouching for the results, but there is
a recipe.
--
Time spent on any item of the agenda will be in
inverse proportion to the sum involved.
Steph Peters delete invalid from incm@sandbenders.demon.co.uk.invalid
Tatting, lace & stitching page <http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/index.htm>

David Martin

On 17/1/05 12:05 am, in article lrvlu0ljs8oubfaivg4jn97i9cqlr1g27c@4ax.com,
"Steph Peters" <urcy@sandbenders.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> Mike Causer <mikec@firstnamelastname.com.invalid> of wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:28:36 +0000, David Martin wrote:
>>
>>> and making bagels and bread,
>>
>> Do you have a good recipe for bagels with UK-available ingredients? I've
>> not managed to make anything even remotely resembling the taste of a good
>> NYC bagel here.
>
> Trundle over to uk.food+drink.misc where Bagels have been discussed this
> week. I haven't tried it so I'm not vouching for the results, but there is
> a recipe.

I'm definitely in need of getting out more after all those bagels and fresh
bread. Stuck in getting work done to a deadline so I'll have to try and get
some exercise this week..

bleaghh..

...d