The Pedestrian on Path Overtake Conundrum

stevenaleach

No, the message was referring to sidewalks, not paths.

Sidewalks are for pedestrians only.

"Bike Paths" are shared paths for bikes, joggers, skates, whatever.

Streets and roads are for all vehicles including bicycles, much to the dissatisfaction of motorists.

Bike Lanes are for bicycles only only.

stevenaleach

That is something to remember. Motorists aren't ALL trying to be rude when they honk (Though I get the impression that most are)... In fact, drivers are taught to beep to warn cyclists before passing.

The fact that there is no way to tell the difference between a friendly "passing on your left" beep and a "get the hell off the road with that piece of junk toy you freaking idiot" beep is, unfortunately, our problem... not theirs.

jessloader

Okay, I agree that keeping to the right is the best rule, however, my beef is that the cyclists refuse to slow down when they pass. They whiz by at speeds over 15 miles/hr and think that a little bell is notice enough and slowing down is futile.
The park I speak of is primarily for off-leash dogs and secondarily for cyclists. There are signs everywhere that say to yield to pedestrians and to keep speeds slow because of low-visibilty. Yet when you say anything, they verbally abuse you and say that they have the right of way.
I think this attitude came from too many times of the pedestrian jumping out of the way as to avoid conflict.
I'm saying that whether you're in a rush or not, or on your way to work or whatever, you must slow down to pass otherwise, you're making a very unsafe environment for everyone.
But of course, common sense is not all that common.
And by the way, I do own a bicycle but I'd never go so far as saying I'm a cyclist. What a burn that would be!!

stevenaleach

Ahhh yet another reason to assert your right to the road rather than being scared off by cars on to bikepath. I don't think anyone would consider 15 miles an hour excessive on the road.

Today I was stopped at a traffic light (a Loooonnng traffic light) and a passenger in a vehicle behind me yelled "Yo, why don't you get on the sidewalk". I know this was meant as a retorical question but I chose to answer it anyway...

1) The sidewalk is for pedestrian traffic, not vehicular.

2) It is unsafe for pedestrians who could get hit.

3) It is unsafe for cyclists who are 30 times more likely to be hit by riding on sidewalks.

4) The roadway is the proper place for vehicular traffic. That is what the road is for.

5) Sidewalks here are not maintained well enough for bicycles (other than mountain bikes) to ride on.

6) It's called the law.

7) Those who ride on sidewalks should be ticketed and fined.

I realize, of course, that this guy didn't listen and learned nothing but at least I tried.

BTW: I used to run 2 miles in 13 minutes on PT tests in the army. I am a lousy runner. This is basically a fast jog for two miles, If i tried to go faster I would be worn out too quickly. That comes out to about 9.23 MPH... I'm sure most people could go much faster (Like 15 MPH or more) for shorter distances like a quarter mile or so.

A quick web search for average walking/jogging/running speeds gave me a physics site which stated that a human may reach 20 mph running.

Basically saying that 15 miles per hour is unreasonable and dangerous is saying that riding any faster than a jogging/runner could go is unreasonable. Therefore the bicycle is an unsafe and unreasonable invention since the entire purpose is to be able to travel faster and farther than can be done on foot. Should joggers slow down to a walking pace to pass? Should runners drop to a slow jog to pass walkers?

Or, heres an idea, cyclists who don't want to put up with verbal abuse and potential assult from pedestrians for traveling at a moderate to slow pace can ride on the road instead.

Think of the benefits:

1) the more of us there are, the more motorists will get used to it and quit telling us to ride on the sidewalk.

2) There are a hell of a lot more miles of road than there are bike paths.

3) Think of it as a training aid helping to increase your average speed. Instead of being heckled for going too fast, you will get heckled for going too slow and be inspired to speed up.

4) You get to actually go places by riding on the street.. thats what the street is there for you know.. useful things like work, school, grocery stores, etc. are rarely located on the bike path.

5) Transportation... kindof what the bicycle was invented for. Sure, cycling is also fun, but that doesn't mean it is only or even mostly an entertainment activity.

6) Population control. Constantly pissing off fat guys in SUVs by making them reach the next traffic light 1 second later will cause them to have their heart attacks earlier therefore reducing the population by one.

I'm not totally against bike paths, but I think there are significant downside that are ignored. Bike paths promote the idea that cycling is just a recreational activity. By providing a seperate place for cyclists to ride, the idea is promoted (for drivers and cyclists alike) that riding on the road is unsafe/wrong/to be avoided at all costs. Bike paths create the impression for drivers that bicycles don't really belong on the streets and roads.

JoeRider

If I make noise, bell, downshift, airhorn, or whatever, half the time the move right into my path..arhhhhg. I usually take the street, unless it a wooded path with nothing near by. Then I just take to the grass and go around.

JR

jessloader

Yeah!!! You actually agree with me! Sort of. I also think cyclists shouldn't be allowed on these paths. It is dangerous for all involved. I wish these cyclists would use the road so I don't have to stay in the brush to avoid them hitting me again.
I am one of the few drivers out there that don't mind cyclists, in fact I think it's great because of health and pollution factors. But in the parks, speed is a killer.
And by the way, all the cyclists were going at least 20mph and if they were fast they were going 30+mph. There is also the slow, inexperienced who go 15-20mph. The problem is with the avid, experienced riders who scream past. I know these speeds are acurate because I've measured it.
Here's hoping everyone will listen and stick to the roads!!!!!

stevenaleach

Wow, you have quite a tallent for twisting other people's words and arriving at completely different meanings than intended. Have you considered a post in the Bush administration?

Cyclists shouldn't be allowed on bike paths? That would cause a bit of confusion wouldn't it... they would then have to call them bikeless paths... oh wait, we already have those.. they are called expressways.... and sidewalks. If you see a cyclist going 15 mph or for that matter 5 mph on either then you have an excellent reason to complain.

As you stated, they are mixed use paths. roads without sidewalks are also mixed use paths. Why is it then that it is not necessary for cars (or bikes) to slow to ten miles an hour when passing pedestrians who are walking along the edge of the roadway? because common sense and rules come together beautifully. pedestrians do not walk down the center of the road.

If you are truely disturbed/angered by the speed at which cyclists pass you on bike paths, then there IS an alternative. Pedestrian only walkways do in fact exist. They are called SIDEWALKS. That is what they are there for. If you are passed by a cyclist on a sidewalk, then you do in fact have a perfectly valid compaint as they are not suppsed to be there to begin with.

Of course many people DO ride on the sidewalk even though they shouldn't. But at least you would have a valid reason to be angry.

Oh, and I must congratulate you on your dedication to your obsession, if not to reason. Since you claim to have measured the speed of all passing cyclists, I can only assume that you carry a radar gun on your daily walks. This is behaviour above and beyond the call of just plain wierd.

franklen

I wonder how many paths are specifically marked (and clearly marked) as bike only? If this is the case, then peds beware, otherwise, peds get the right of way, and cyclists should slow down for safety sake. If the cyclist wants to go 15,20,30 mph, etc, then get on the road, or bike lane of the road. I myself have never seen a pathway designated as bike only (unless it was the bike lane of the roadway). Many paths that share use between cyclists, peds, rollerbladers, skateboarders, etc have to be that way because there is no parallel sidewalk, why should there be? We don't need a path for each activity, just some courtesy and thoughtfulness.

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www.bicyclecommutingnow.blogspot.com

jessloader

Yeah franklen!! Cyclists that like to go fast should stay off recreational paths and stick to the road where speed is neccesary.
I was being facetious when I said cyclists shouldn't use the path at all. I was just making a point which franklen said for me, "We don't need a path for each activity, just some courtesy and thoughtfulness." That's what I'm talking about. Why don't more people have that attitude?
Why do cyclists refuse to yield to pedestrians in parks with signs everywhere saying "slow" and "yield to pedestrians"?
stevenaleach then asked me why cars don't have to slow down for pedestrians on the sidewalk, well of course they don't, but they sure do when they're in a playground zone. In a playground zone, it doesn't matter what the hell some kid is doing in the road, but a driver or a cyclist still must yield to them in these designated areas.
Well, the park I'm speaking of is the same thing. It's a playground, which luckily has a path going right through it. It's nice in the winter, so your pants don't get soaked, but a downfall is that cyclists have claimed the path as their own. What's so hard about slowing down? Isn't it just being nice to a fellow park user? But instead all you get is the shake of the head. Sometimes I think I'm being rude because they're in a far worse position than I if they can't decipher a simple road sign. Tsk. Tsk.
So then what's the solution? Well, stevenaleach says, getting out of the parks and using a sidewalk. That's about as good of a solution as no bicycles on the path suggestion.
I'm here to find out WHY these cyclists I encounter are so pissed by the idea of slowing to pass. If I happen to pass a cyclist somewhere on a one-lane road, I'm not going to jet through....I'm going to slow down and give some room.... Maybe I'm being too nice. What? Would you rather me tear past you on some road somewhere? Giving you inches to work with? I hardly think you would. What makes you think it's okay to a pedestrian?
Just because you can handle your bike doesn't mean you can go as fast as you want. My Chevelle goes 150mph, but do you think I always go that fast? No, that would be reckless.
Granted, 30 and 150 is a big difference, but to an unprotected and unsuspecting pedestrian, it carries relative force. Just ask my surgeon.
Oh, and I didn't have the radar gun, the cop who came to the park with me sure did so I could try and identify the cyclist who had blindsided me and then took off.
It's too bad that they couldn't monitor the park more frequently, but honestly, it's even more sad that cyclists have to be such a problem. I know it's not all of you out there, but it's more than half!!!!!!
Why can't we all just get a bong?

Insight Driver

Staying on this topic, in Sacramento, California there is a bicycle trail that is mixed-use and the rules are posted at nearly every access point on the 30 mile trail. Most of the time I have no problem, but on weekends when the trail use is heaviest there are parks adjacent where people do spill onto the path.

I have to slow down for people are unpredictable. It is standard courtesey on this trail to announce, "passing on the left." Sure enough, some fraction of people turn around in a start and move to the left!

For that matter, I have had to slow down quickly for the cyclist who decides to turn around, mid-trail, without looking behind him/her to see if the path is clear.

I understand where some folks are coming from. Many mixed-use trails are just that, but mostly pedestrian. I am fortunate to live where there is a primarily bicyclist trail with pedestrians and roller bladers allowed, but not skateboards.

Most people who frequent the bike path I ride are aware of the cyclists and move to the side when one or a group are approaching. There are rude or clueless people, though, who walk the path as if it they owned it. At times like that I wish I had the forthought to carry a leaflet that explains the rules of the trail to hand to them.

lumpy

When I'm on a path that is shared, I just take it easy and ring my little bell. When I pass the pedestrians I ALWAYS say thank you. I ride slowly so I don't scare anyone or worse hit someone. One sure thing is that pedestrians are unpredictable so I always give them plenty of notice so I know where they'll go.

Shared use paths are no place to be showing off how fast you can go. There may be some child around the corner that you could kill.

At one of my local paths, the Rangers have adopted radar guns to slow cyclists down - it's that or risk having cycling banned from the path!

All it takes is one crazy cyclist scaring people and hurting someone to wreck it for everyone. That's why I try to be nice. All bets are off however once I'm on the open road!

As for cycling on sidewalks, well I hate it but I do it when I escort my favorite cycling partner to kindergarten - because I want to keep him from becoming a hood ornament.

Tim

jessloader

Rock On Lumpy!!!!

less'go

There's a great hike and bike trail near my home, it must cover 30 km, and actually goes somewhere, beginning in a distant suburban town, then crossing through successives burbs 'till it hits the city and finally leads into the heart of Paris. It's useful, it's pleasant. All week long it's basically empty, there's no speed limit, and as such, I can hop on and give it all I got, just for fun or to go to work.

BUT, on the weekend, it's a whole other story. On weekends there are families walking off their midday meal, kids (and adults) learning to bike, rollerblade, skateboard, even toddlersjust learning to walk. There are 9 day old persons and 90 year old persons. There are tough-looking adolescents and grandmas feeding pigeons. This is NOT the day to go ride my bike there, unless I'm doing it to accompany my child (obviously slowly).

Grown-ups should be sensible enough to avoid these multi-use paths for biking (recreational or other) when there are so many people. It isn't even fun when it's too busy.

I ride a bike. I also walk. I have kids. I have a dog. I have a car. I have a grandma. I am not just a cyclist, so I can't say I'm for people on bikes and not for other people.

Sometimes I'm on a bike, sometimes I'm walking, sometimes it's my daughter who darts accross the path unexpectedly, and sometimes I'm the cyclist who has to avoid the little kid. I don't see where the cyclist versus pedestrian thing comes into play if we're all a little considerate.

And you know, it is annoying that folks don't keep to the right, but two days ago I almost crashed into a cyclist ambling on the left while talking on his cell phone.

SO chill out, avoid these MUPs or whatever when they are busy, get your butts on the road, too, that's really where we need you because the more bikes there are n the road, the safer we as cyclists are. If the idea of biking on the road scares you, it's probably because you haven't really gotten out there yet.

As per the overtake conundrum, if I have to say something, I try to do it with a smile, and of course I slow down if I have to cut it close. I don't want to run into someone any more than they want to be run into. 'Course if they give me attitude in spite of my couteous passing behavior, I will lay in and give them what for :-).

Sara

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el Inglés

I´ve yet to meet a pedestrian that does not believe the laws of physics ( inertia ) have been repealled just for them , I like to stop but I need space and people stepping off the kerb without looking first are the bain of my life . Cycle , scooter or car it don´t seem to matter . They´re the one getting hurt so why not look , please .
The funny thing is it´s often the people that normally drive , ride that are the worst offenders , life is strange .

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