pealling push up push down

coolworx

Just adding my 2 cents (as just a 15mph loaded touring hack) but it seems to me that over a 60 mile day I rely on multiple "techniques".

From ass clenching heel scraping (a lot of front calf muscle) action to pointy ballet-foot (mostly quad/ rear calf) stroking. Basically, little changes in 'point of attack' hit all sortsa new muscle bundles, and allow me to shift the stress over all the available resources.

I think anyone who claims they stick to one way of getting the bike progressing forward, isn't very good at assessing their efforts.

Brizza

Which is why I asked how long he has sustained this technique.

I did 150miles on Monday and every muscle in my legs was sore for the following days. After my hamstrings and quads had fatigued I drew from any other muscles that I could.

Different techniques are right for different times which is why I'd like to know more about Crowley's theory.

n crowley

I normally do around the 50+ mile training spins but there is nothing to prevent me from going further now that I have eliminated the curse of lower back pain. This technique works best when you can ride at a constant speed,
changes of pace, braking and accelerating it does not like so except for lower back pain victims, its advantages in road racing are neutralized. It is ideal for TT's, pursuits or anywhere an uninterrupted maximum constant pace can be used. So that's why I say for road races the weaker circular style is sufficient and for sprinting or sudden acceleration mashing is a necessity.

Brizza

I still don't understand how this technique is different other than pedaling in squares.

n crowley

I am putting together a more simplified biomechanical description and I'll give it to you later, too busy now.

n crowley

I know this explanation will also be a waste of time , this is how easy the technique is, so I hope you understand it. First for this technique, correct bike set up (high bar position 1-2 " lower than saddle) and old style cleats etc are a necessity. When the right leg is in the 10- 11 o'c position, the line of sole of shoe, lower leg and thigh are in the shape of a reversed or mirrored Z. As soon as the left leg passes the 5 o'c position, using almost every muscle in the right leg from hip to ball of foot and starting with the sole of shoe line, concentration is focused on attempting to straighten out that Z shape until the pedal reaches 5 o'c, at which point it is instantly unweighted and drawn back (not up) to reform that Z shape at 10. You are using muscles that you never used before and they have to be trained for this new workload. Unlike the pulling up muscles all of these muscles can be trained for maximum power and endurance. While the Cycling Weekly article stated Anquetil kept his ankles in a rigid position, he did in fact use the full range of ankle movement and this is how the dead spot area is totally eliminated and replaced with the same constant power that is used at 2, 3 and 4 o'c. The pointing down of shoes is part of this straightening attempt. The line through which this straightening is done is parallel to the arm resistance and this makes maximum arm resistance available to increase pedal power whenever the occasion requires it.

n crowley

I should also have added that beginners should not use this technique without first warming up for at least 15 mins and only then when cadence is 70+, you need the upper cadence to get the spring loaded effect into the muscles.

Brizza

Is it fair to say that the biomechanical description is to place more emphasis on the down stroke and use the soleous muscles in pointing the toes down at the bottom of the stroke.

UnderCoverEle

Does this make it any clearer or easier to understand, pedaling through perfect circles, you have to pedal through the 6 o'clock position as pulling your foot back 'as if you are trying to scrape mud from the bottom of your shoe'. begin the pulling scraping motion through the 3 o'clock position. To get you through the 12 o'clock position 'dead spot' as you pass the 12 o'clock position 'as if you where standing on a barrel and rolling it with your feet' start this at the 10 o'clock postion and through until the 3 o'clock position rolling over the top and repeat the cycle.

Brizza

I think Crowley is suggesting a dead spot from 5-10 o clock is acceptable though in terms of dead spots I can't see how he's using 6-12 o clock as he doesn't pull back or push forward.

UnderCoverEle

i usually spend about 5-10 minutes just riding without pushing down and generate all my power from the up stroke, i can generate enough power to get me up to around 18-20mph but if i push over and without stomping i can ride efficiently at around 24-25mph but if i encorperate the both i can ride easily 30+ and bottom out at 36mph on flats, so you tell me which method is more effective with the dead spots or trying to iron them out???

Brizza

There are different styles of pedaling for different purposes and we're looking at power output in a little more depth than that but I agree with you that using both up and down creates more power.

I don't think Crowley's method is the most powerful (for the trained athlete) but it will have it's use somewhere.

I can't begin to imagine the power required in the downstroke to compensate for not using the upstroke or the dead sections at the top and bottom.

UnderCoverEle

i guess there are different types, but i find that an higher cadence and trying to perform perfect circles is the best method i have tryed but i prefare longer TT's plus its easier to master if your riding a fixie to start with since it carries the leg through the entire pedal circle and not allowing one to coast but i guess your already aware of that. i would hate to imagine how difficult it would be to complete an 100 mile ride just by pushing alone.

Brizza

I use Crowley's method to climb some hills but I also use very strong pulls.

Starting on a fixie does not help you with the full circle as it's just as easy to unweight the pedal on the up. A fixed wheel stops you from freewheeling it doesn't make you pedal continuously.

You could probably do a century with just pushing if you were well trained. I'm sure people have done centuries on platform pedals before.