Deadlift

velomanct

I was stiff-legging 255lbs for sets of 3 today. Problem was, my grip nearly gave out on the 5th set, barely got the bar back on the rack. I am going to do rack pulls and such to help with my grip. I used chalk, but my hands just couldn't hold the weight. I don't care for those grip trainers.

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Hypnospin

with the stiff leg variant, proceed with caution, as they are inherenly more injury prone than the deadlift proper as less muscle groups are involved and you are at a more disadvantaged movement to apply leverage. the result is a concentration of stress on the susceptible lower back.

these stiff legged deadlifts, though, work the neglected hamstrings of the cyclist when done with a weight that will permit sets of 12-20 reps.
probably a good starting point for you from what you mention would be 135-185.
seems light for a lifter, i know, but do 'em strict with no bounce and see the light.

if you must lift the stiff variat heavy, try partials on the power cage or rack, starting from about mid-thigh level, this way you will avoid the deepest part of the movement, where you are most leverage-disadvantaged, and most injury prone.

velomanct

thanks for the advice. I do alternate set/rep schemes every workout, but never go above 10 reps. I suppose 12-20 reps would be good for hypertrophy, but it won't help with strength. With the stiff-leg deadlift, I keep my back as straight as possible too, and never had problems with the lower back using the heavy weights. I lower the weight until the plates just touch the floor, then imediately go up.
I suppose this may be odd, but my normal deadlift is the same weight as my stiff-leg deadlift.
I am training solely for sprinting, so I am not the typical cyclist.

__________________
"friendship, family, religion. These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business!" -Mr. Burns
The faster you go, the fewer passing cars

ed073

remember it's "stiff-legged", not "straight-legged". Keep a slight bend at the knees.

huhenio

330 x 3 !!!!


This riding uphill shifting as low as possible is helping!

Whooohoooo .....!!!

Old goat with back surgery

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jyeager

I don't think that stiff leg deads are bad for the back if the technique is right. With NO bend in the low back there is less strain on the low back discs than traditional deads. I say this as someone who's struggled with a ruptured disc for 18 years. I've never had a problem with SLDL hurting my back, but have a little with squats; and with normal deads I have to be very careful. I never do over 225lbs with either form of dead lift (yet). I've just started traditional deadlifts a few months ago in an attempt to strengthen my supporting muscles. I've found my back feels better all around and doesn't hurt so much when riding.

I recommend deads for any cyclist even if it doesn't improve the cycling. It's great if only for the protection it affords the low back.

Don't know if deads help cycling any more than squats would, but the movement does seem to be very similar to out-of-the-seat sprinting.

ed073

Sprint events (up to 2 minutes duration): yes.
Endurance events (all road cycling): no.

Meek One

I enjoy all three. Full, Stiff and the Partials in the rack from knee height. Since I just started these several month ago, I am making decent progress. I now go up to 405 for fulls, partial at 495 and then stiff at only 225 with very strict form as a finishing exercise. Back is starting to look thick. No problems whatsoever with grip.

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ed073

Funny. The words "enjoy" and "deadlift" should never be in the same sentence!!

jyeager

Good one! I feel that way @ squats for sure. (although yesterday was sort of pleasant).

Billsworld

I am not a track guru, but have powerlifted for a while. Good info can be had from Dr fred Hatfield aka DR Squat...He is not a clean lifter, and in the past has advocated alot of Russian routines, but he has always been informative. No offense, but the deadlift is a waste of time for cyclist. The stiff leg DL is a good asistance exersize for the squat, and should be done in a way that the back is very straight, shoulders back head up. You will feel a strong pull in the hams when you are low enough....Focus on the Squat, learn what "REAL" paralel is ond go there. FYI draw a line from your hip joint to middle of your knee. When that line is paralell with the ground your low enough......I have squated 455x1 Deadlited 550x1 power clean 270x1 Bench 360x1 at under 200 lbs. I am 43 and can still spin a 48x14 gear to 150 38mph on a flat.....Also remember, your a bike racer, not a power lifter. If you try to do both well , youll stink at both. I can only train legs every two weeks, and I dont ride for 3 days after...Good luck

jyeager

Billsworth, thanks for adding to the discussion.

Perhaps coming from your powerlifting background you don't see the cycling value of deads. Or perhaps I'm wrong. But let me give my rationale.
From an injury prevention standpoint, deadlifts develop the lowback muscles more than anything else. Even squatting (when done properly ala. powerlifting technique) doesn't involve the low back to that extent. I have struggled with a ruptured L4/L5 disc since I was 20. I was a heavy cyclist and all that seat time is what ultimately caused the disc problems I've struggled with for 18 years now. Since adding deads to my routine my back has improved immensely. Basically for @ 10 of those years I was, for all practical purposes, disabled. Now I can do most everything again (I'll soon try adding back my kickboxing and see if I can tolerate that too).
A cyclist kills his discs while riding, and needs the support that strong low-back muscles provide. That's reason #1.

Reason #2 is that when you are sprinting on a bike, you are leaned over forward on to the drops of the bars. This places your upper body relative to the lower body in a position much more reminiscent of a deadlift than a squat. Biomechanically deads probably equate more to sprinting on a bike than squats do. With each push on the pedals there's a corresponding pull up on the handlebars with the low-back muscles providing an equal amount of resistance to transmit that force downward. Just like deadlifting.

Billsworld

I guess everone is different. I would have perscribed lots of ab work and back work on a glute ham gastroc raise bench. Most of my squat work was done high bar narrow stance below paralell, NO BELT or wraps . I think that is the better way to squat .The no belt forces you to stay tight (405x6 365x10 range). I cant do that any more, 315x10 is aboutall i can muster. I have to do about 5 set of leg press to be warm enough to squat.Gettin old stinks! Glad the dl worked for you though. Certainly is no fun to do h a h a h a . Question, how do you keep from overtraining doing all the weight training and Cycling. I am in a constant battle of not overtraining. If i am overtrained at all I have no snap in my legs on the bike..... Thanks BP

jyeager

I agree we are all different and all should experiment to find what works for them. If I were a competitive cyclist I would lift like this mostly in the off season. However, my main thing these days is weights and I do triathlons on the side to stay fit. Therefore, I'm not concerned @ cycling too much. I ride @ 3 times per week and keep the duration down (since I focus on the sprint triathlons anyway). That's why overtraining isn't too much of a problem. I try to ride on leg days, that's about 3 hours after my lifting. Then 2 other days.
I'm not sure that there's too much problem mixing weight training with lots of cardio stuff in terms of overtraining, The cardio tends to stress the circulatory system and the weight training stresses the fast-twitch muscle fibers, but I really haven't done both with intensity at the same time, except when I was fighting. Back then my main problem was with my shoulders enduring the daily boxing routine and the shoulder/chest workouts.
Overtraining is much more of an issue the older we get. If I were trying to be competitive in an endurance sport I would be tempted to find a source for growth hormone! (that's how today's athletes handle the rigors without overtraining).