Page 8 - Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

27-05.-2005, 09:57 PM

#106

Mansmind

Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 694

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by biker-linz

I thought long and hard about whether to respond to Gholl's post, both last night and this morning. My immediate reaction was to say nothing, and not dignify his bullying and insulting behaviour with a reaction.
However on reflection I think it's best to clear up a couple of the things he's accused me of.
I have *never* made money from posting on a forum. Having paid good money myself and worked hard to pass my coaching exams I feel I have every right to do so were someone to ask me. The idea that the ABCC is somehow a lesser organisation because they are not affiliated to the BCF is extremely odd. I have never claimed to be a BCF coach, and I don't particularly want to be one. Some of the best coaches in the UK are members of the ABCC and for good reason.
I am proud of the University I attend; for instance, those who are familiar with the scientific literature regarding cycling will be well aware of Dr. Gary Palmer's work there. I am also proud that, at 36, I had the courage to apply, and I love being there.
We all have alterior motives for participating in this forum. I enjoy taking part because I feel I have a useful contrbution to make; as I said before if someone feels that they would like to pay me to help them enjoy their cycling more then I can see no harm in that. Another reason I participate in this (and other) forum(s) is to learn as much as possible about a subject I love. I do not, nor have I ever, sold power meters except for a second-hand Polar last year. The idea that I am somehow concealing my motives by including my web address in my signature is baffling.

Thanks for listening, see you round on the forum!

Lindsay.

Well said. I think there would be VERY few people visiting the forum that share Mr. Gholl's opinion regarding the coaches here. The vast majority of us appreciate the information you share. Also, I don't see anything unethical, or conflicting by advertising that your services are available should someone desire to utilize them.

Look forward to seeing you around.

John

28-05.-2005, 12:07 AM

#108

biker-linz

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: nr. Milton Keynes, UK

Posts: 216

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozy

Rick, as you know many of us follow your postings here. it is very important that you give us assurance of your background and credibility.
I think you owe the forum members more thorough answers to the allegations here.
What in fact is your relationship to British cycling-are you a genuine certified coach recognized by the BCF? If not, why not?
You call yourself "super-moderator" , but do you actually financially subsize this website? If so, why, and how much money do you give them?
We would also like to see your CV-what original contributions to Sports Medicine have you made?

Dear Bozy,
While I obviously can't speak for Ric, as an ABCC registered coach myself I feel I can answer questions in relation to the ABCC. The ABCC was originally the coaching arm of British Cycling but apparently there was a falling out a long time ago and the BCF set up their own program. There is, however, no reason why the ABCC should have to affiliate to the BCF in any way; it is an entirely independent body. Many good coaches are registered with (and trained by) the ABCC, including Malcolm Firth, Dr. Gordon Wright (Stuart Dangerfield's coach), Dave Lloyd and Ric (and me). There are many more. As somone who already had a pretty fair grounding in exercise physiology and training principles I found the ABCC course still required a fair amount of work and would recommend it to anyone. Many people who are already BCF coaches (Dave Lloyd included) feel it necessary to take the ABCC courses and I understand why. For more info you might want to contact them directly on:

www.abcc.co.uk

L.

__________________
MSc (Applied Sport and Exercise Science)
RST Associate Coach
ABCC Level 3 Coach
Doctoral Student (Physiology), University of Oxford, UK.
www.cyclecoach.com
www.science4sport.com

28-05.-2005, 12:25 AM

#110

biker-linz

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: nr. Milton Keynes, UK

Posts: 216

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozy

However, the fundamental question of whether members of the ABCC are officially certified and represent
British Cycling remains unanswered.
Could you be so kind as to give us a more direct reply?

Bozy,
I don't know how much more clear I can be: the BCF and ABCC are entirely independent bodies, so neither one is affiliated with the other. From an entirely ethical standpoint I can tell you that the insurance offered as an ABCC coach is much better than that offered by the BCF (£5m as opposed to £3m). As I said before, any more questions you wish to pose regarding the credibility of the ABCC might be better directed at the Association itself.

Hope this helps,

L.

__________________
MSc (Applied Sport and Exercise Science)
RST Associate Coach
ABCC Level 3 Coach
Doctoral Student (Physiology), University of Oxford, UK.
www.cyclecoach.com
www.science4sport.com

28-05.-2005, 01:34 AM

#111

acoggan

Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2003

Posts: 2,588

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by biker-linz

You're a better man than I am, Lindsay. My immediate reaction was that gholl is just a bitter, senile crackpot.

28-05.-2005, 01:56 AM

#113

ric_stern/RST

Community Team

Join Date: Nov 2002

Location: Newport, South Wales

Posts: 3,830

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozy

I've really made every effort, but really don't find your reply to my query clear at all. Actually, one might say it seems quite elusive. The query had nothing whatsoever to do with insurance. However, pursuant to your several suggestions I've contacted the BCF and they inform me that the ABCC has nothing to do with official British Cycling at all.
In fact, they indicated that the ABCC has absolutely no official status in Britain.
I find this quite disquieting. Don't you? Some might find it analogous to the difference between members of the Royal College of Surgeons and a similarly named group of imposters. Seems quite shameful, really.
Furthermore, I'm deeply surprised that Ric himself has not come forth to reply to the questions regarding his own lack of credibility.
I don't imagine he can continue to expect you to function as his apologist, or can he?

you seem unable to understand that the ABCC and the BCF are separate organisations, with the ABCC having been in existence for a lot longer than BCs coaching section. if you want to argue about that, then that's up to you, the rest of us have better things to do.

As i have mentioned to you before i have a 1st Class Honours degree in Sports Science from the University of Brighton, and am a Level 3 ABCC coach.

Ric

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28-05.-2005, 02:05 AM

#114

acoggan

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Join Date: Jul 2003

Posts: 2,588

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozy

I'm curious, bozy: where are you from? I ask because if you're from Great Britain, I assume you're aware that the BCF isn't the only body promoting competitve cycling there - the RTTC puts on races (solo ones, anyway) as well. So, why two official bodies? Simple: it's a byproduct of the history of the sport, nothing more and nothing less. This is the first I've learned of the distinction between the ABCC and BCF coaching certification programs, but given that multiple governing bodies can and do exist, why would you consider it "disquieting" when the same occurs in this context?

Here in the United States, we used to have the Amateur Bicycle League of America as the National Governing Body (as in, recognized by the federal government as being responsible for e.g., selecting our Olympic team) for amateur road and track cycling, US Pro regulating pro road and track cycling (such as it was at the time), and the National Off-Road Bicycle Association regulating MTB racing. I don't recall exactly when all these bodies merged under the USA Cycling banner, but I can tell you that I'm old enough to have held an ABLA license for many years.

On the coaching end of things, there is a USA Cycling Coaching Association that is technically independent of USA Cycling, although I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg...

BTW, if anybody is insistent on taking advice only from individuals who are certified by a specific organization, then they shouldn't listen to anything I ever say, because I'm not a licensed coach!

28-05.-2005, 02:10 AM

#115

biker-linz

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: nr. Milton Keynes, UK

Posts: 216

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozy

I've really made every effort, but really don't find your reply to my query clear at all.

"..they are not affiliated to the BCF .." and "..neither one is affiliated with the other.."
????

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozy

However, pursuant to your several suggestions I've contacted the BCF

I never suggested any such thing but rock on!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozy

and they inform me that the ABCC has nothing to do with official British Cycling at all.

Which is what I said on two separate occasions. You could have saved yourself the price of a phone call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozy

In fact, they indicated that the ABCC has absolutely no official status in Britain.
I find this quite disquieting. Don't you? Some might find it analogous to the difference between members of the Royal College of Surgeons and a similarly named group of imposters. Seems quite shameful, really.

Not in the slightest. We are *not* surgeons. We are coaches. The ABCC is a widely recognised and respected body in the UK (and elsewhere). If you have some kind of personal beef with them, as I said before, you should contact them directly.

L.

__________________
MSc (Applied Sport and Exercise Science)
RST Associate Coach
ABCC Level 3 Coach
Doctoral Student (Physiology), University of Oxford, UK.
www.cyclecoach.com
www.science4sport.com

28-05.-2005, 02:12 AM

#116

biker-linz

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: nr. Milton Keynes, UK

Posts: 216

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by acoggan

I ask because if you're from Great Britain, I assume you're aware that the BCF isn't the only body promoting competitve cycling there - the RTTC puts on races (solo ones, anyway) as well.

Not to mention the TLI and LVRC.

L.

__________________
MSc (Applied Sport and Exercise Science)
RST Associate Coach
ABCC Level 3 Coach
Doctoral Student (Physiology), University of Oxford, UK.
www.cyclecoach.com
www.science4sport.com

28-05.-2005, 02:14 AM

#117

acoggan

Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2003

Posts: 2,588

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by acoggan

You're a better man than I am, Lindsay. My immediate reaction was that gholl is just a bitter, senile crackpot.

And I think that bozy, who only joined this forum today, is just a troll - perhaps even gholl himself, trying to score points by making the same off-the-wall statements but in a somewhat less offensive manner.

28-05.-2005, 02:18 AM

#119

Mansmind

Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 694

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozy

I must ask, what does this possibly have to do with ANYTHING? Noone ever made a claim that they were associated, in fact, it's been CLEARLY stated that they do not.

Where did the impression that they were "supposed to be" come from? Just because they both have British Cycling in the name? That's a common enough term that I suspect you could find it in other places also.

What does the existence or non-existence have to do with credibility? These coaches (like all others) establish credibility based upon their success/knowledge, etc. not because of some association.

This whole "inquisition" is pointless, it's just flatly immaterial to the discussion at hand. Get real.

John

28-05.-2005, 02:28 AM

#120

ric_stern/RST

Community Team

Join Date: Nov 2002

Location: Newport, South Wales

Posts: 3,830

Re: Power Meters and Pedaling Effectiveness

Quote:

Originally Posted by acoggan

I'm curious, bozy: where are you from?

bozy is gholl, he's from USA

Ric

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