Training to Failure Revisited

Matthew

WillBrink <WillBrink*NOSPAM*@Comcast.net> wrote in message
news:WillBrink*NOSPAM*-362BD1.09063627052005@comcast.dca.giganews.com.
...
> In article <119d4j4t9dasm09@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Matthew" <matthewvenhaus@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Personally I'm
> > basically following the "biggest guy in the gym" approach.
>
> You are mixing Anadrol and Sust?
>
LOL, no. But I do live in El Paso. I'm a regular over at
alt.support.diet so you might imagine hypertrophy isn't my objective.
When I say "follow the biggest guy" approach, I'm just saying I'm
being pragmatic and doing what has worked for others with similar
objectives.

Matthew

Mr-Natural-Health

JMW wrote:
> "Mr-Natural-Health" <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:
> >
> >You can throw around all you want, the buzz phrase training to failure.
> >It is totally meaningless as it is currently being used by jocks. It
> >should obviously refer to doing only one set.
> >
> >Just my opinion, but I am right as usual. And, I don't mind saying so.
> >
>
> You have never been averse to exhibiting your own stupidity.
>
> However, for those whom you might confuse with your moronic opinions,
> please allow me to share some definitions used by Dr. Simon Gandevia,
> PhD, MD, DSc, one of the foremost authorities on neuromuscular
> fatigue:
>
> "Muscle fatigue: Any exercise-induced reduction in the ability of a
> muscle to generate force or power; it has peripheral and
> central causes."
>
> "Task failure: Cessation of a bout of exercise. This may be
> accompanied by peripheral fatigue, central fatigue, or both."
>
> Gandevia SC. Spinal and supraspinal factors in human muscle fatigue.
> Physiol Rev. 2001 Oct;81(4):1725-89.
>
> Perhaps you should avoid discussions of muscle physiology and limit
> your exhibitions of stupidity to the discussion of so-called health
> foods.

Perhaps, if you were to focus?

Do you think that the Dick Zone, or any gym in the country is a
classroom, Dork?

Perhaps, you are dumb enough to try to use task failure in the Dick
Zone, but I will stick with training to fatigue. Thank you.

Mr-Natural-Health

WillBrink wrote:
> In article <1117196305.457190.270400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> "Mr-Natural-Health" <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:
>
> > JMW wrote:
> >
> > > rest interval between sets, 2 minutes)."
> >
> > 2 minutes is way too long. At that interval, you could continue to do
> > sets all day long provided you have built up any type of muscle
> > endurance at all.
>
> Moron says what?

Any dude who cannot work all day long, taking 2 minute breaks is a
girlie man. Brink should know. Her buns is girlie man's biggest
muscle.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

WillBrink

In article <1117211088.702088.201930@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Mr-Natural-Health" <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:

> WillBrink wrote:
> > In article <1117196305.457190.270400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Mr-Natural-Health" <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:
> >
> > > JMW wrote:
> > >
> > > > rest interval between sets, 2 minutes)."
> > >
> > > 2 minutes is way too long. At that interval, you could continue to do
> > > sets all day long provided you have built up any type of muscle
> > > endurance at all.
> >
> > Moron says what?
>
> Any dude who cannot work all day long, taking 2 minute breaks is a
> girlie man.

Really? Care to post a picture of yourself showing us what great shape
you are in? On my worst day, I am still far stronger then you are.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

Donovan Rebbechi

On 2005-05-27, Mr-Natural-Health <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:
>
>
> WillBrink wrote:
>> In article <1117196305.457190.270400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>> "Mr-Natural-Health" <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:
>>
>> > JMW wrote:
>> >
>> > > rest interval between sets, 2 minutes)."
>> >
>> > 2 minutes is way too long. At that interval, you could continue to do
>> > sets all day long provided you have built up any type of muscle
>> > endurance at all.
>>
>> Moron says what?
>
> Any dude who cannot work all day long, taking 2 minute breaks is a
> girlie man. Brink should know. Her buns is girlie man's biggest
> muscle.

OK, as an endurance weenie, I'd have to say that I find this quite laughable.

But instead of laughing, I have an interesting challenge for you -- your
assignment is to complete a total of 30 minutes of time doing squats, with
a weight of 60% 1rm or more. You are allowed at most a 1:1 work rest ratio.
You must maintain a reasonable power output -- 6 seconds a rep should give you
enough time to rack and unrack.

So in other words, I'm asking that you complete 360 squats at 60% 1rm in no
more than 30 minutes. Good luck.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

WillBrink

In article <1117249346.881803.39610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Mr-Natural-Health" <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:

> WillBrink wrote:
>
> > > Any dude who cannot work all day long, taking 2 minute breaks is a
> > > girlie man.
> >
> > Really?
>
> Yes, Mr. Numb Nuts is a girlie man.

Nice snip job coward. Where is that picture?

>
> Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

That would be the response of anyone who actually sees what you look
like, a toothless flabby loser.

>

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

Mr-Natural-Health

> > >> It is should be called training to failure only when referring to one
> > >> set, and at most two sets. With multiple, or more than 2, sets the
> > >> more appropriate term would be "training to fatigue." Training to
> > >> fatigue requires a longer recovery period than using training to
> > >
> > >Training to fatigue with multiple sets is more effective than training
> > >to failure with only one set simply because most people are unable or
> > >unwilling to push themselves hard enough to achieve what is required by
> > >training to failure with only one set.
>
> It is no accident that I picked a study with women, since they are
> prone to bodybuild with laughably light weights. Yeah, right, sure ...
> just try to tell me that the women at my gym who have been trained by a
> personal trainer are training to failure. I have not seen one female
> workout with anything approaching a heavy weight that really really had
> to push to do that last rep.

Mr. Numb Nut's silence on my above points is deafening!

Ha, ... hah, Ha!

Training to fatigue with multiple sets is more effective than training
to failure on one set.

And, the reason is obvious. Few people are able or willing to push
themselves that hard. While multiple sets that approach, but never
achieve, training to failure tears down and/or stresses your muscles
enough to stimulate growth.

Mr-Natural-Health

> One group did one set and then stopped.
>
> The other group continued to do two more sets.
>
> To say that the first group could NOT have continued on to do two more
> sets, because they had trained to failure is total BullShit.

Perhaps, if the girlie man was to focus?

Training to failure is about doing one set.

But, doing multiple sets in the real world has been proven to be more
effective for the average joe, than doing only one set.

Everything else is bullShit, just like your big butt Girlie Man!

Just my opinion, but I am right as usual Dick Brain.

WillBrink

In article <1117294268.298957.176080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Mr-Natural-Health" <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:

>
> Training to fatigue with multiple sets is more effective than training
> to failure on one set.

And we are still waiting to see how effective it's been for you. Where
is that pic toothless one? That you give health and nutrition advice on
sci (or lack there of) med.nutrition is sad. That you attempt to give
bodybuilding advice on mfw is hilarious!

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

Mr-Natural-Health

WillBrink wrote:

> And we are still waiting to see how effective it's been for you.

How effective depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Not
everybody is trying to look like a muscle bounded freak!

I saw some recent photos of Arnold Swarchenegger last night. That guy
now looks like the adverage fat slob who has never worked out in their
entire life, with absolutely no muscle definition.

Arnold Swarchenegger's image is all BullShit.

And, you if you actually bothered to check out bodybuilding
definitions:

Failure = Fatigue

Just thought that you might want to know, Dick Brain.

Hobbes

In article <1117377834.018663.40070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Mr-Natural-Health" <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:

> WillBrink wrote:
>
> > And we are still waiting to see how effective it's been for you.
>
> How effective depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Not
> everybody is trying to look like a muscle bounded freak!
>
> I saw some recent photos of Arnold Swarchenegger last night. That guy
> now looks like the adverage fat slob who has never worked out in their
> entire life, with absolutely no muscle definition.
>
> Arnold Swarchenegger's image is all BullShit.
>
> And, you if you actually bothered to check out bodybuilding
> definitions:
>
> Failure = Fatigue

While failure may be caused by local muscle fatique, failure and fatique
are not identical terms or equivilant. So while I'll stay out of the flame
war I'm really not sure what you are getting at here.

Also, while I'm not a bodybuilder and don't really care much Arnold S.
accomplishments in the field are well documented, both by photography and
by awards.

--
Keith

Mr-Natural-Health

WillBrink wrote:

> > I saw some recent photos of Arnold Swarchenegger last night. That guy
> > now looks like the adverage fat slob who has never worked out in their
> > entire life, with absolutely no muscle definition.
>
> I saw Arnold in person a few months ago, as I do every year, and he
> looked great for his age.
>
> > Arnold Swarchenegger's image is all BullShit.

I don't know when or where the pictures were taken, but Arnold
Swarchenegger was at a beach in swiming trunks. And, he was clearly
totally out of shape.

It appears that Arnold maintains his bodybuilding image by wearing
clothes.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha! At some point in his recent life, Arnold clearly lost
his bodybuilding physique.

Perhaps, Arnold engages in yo yo bodybuilding?

Mr-Natural-Health

Hobbes wrote:

> I'm really not sure what you are getting at here.

What I am trying to do is:
#1:Ignore Mr. Numb Nuts comments.
#2evelop a new workout routine that makes sense for my objectives.

>From my research: Only relatively intense and long duration
(exhaustive) exercise induced hyperplasia. Prolonged training or
exercise consisting of relatively intense and long duration (wholly
exhaustive) regimens induce muscle hypertrophy following hyperplasia.
The ideal workout should produce muscle fiber damage.

"Training regimens inducing hyperplasia consist of repeated bouts and
provide sufficient recovery time under normal physiological conditions.
... It is also speculated that these recovery phases may contribute to
the hyperplasia. A resting state under normal physiological conditions
is required for better adaptation of the muscle."

I need to "use a moderately high load and relatively high number of
repetitions, and certain muscle groups are exercised separately. This
exercise is usually followed by or combined with two or more additional
exercises which activate the same muscle group, interspersed with short
resting times. Furthermore, as many as 16-20 consecutive sets
stressing a certain muscle might be executed within 30-40 minutes to
achieve the state termed 'muscle pumping up'. This system is
exhaustive for the muscle."

Therefore, I will need to implement exercising different muscle groups
on different days once a week allowing for at least 5 days to recover.
Use more sets, than I have been used to. Use complex exercises, perhaps
followed by isolation exercises. While, cutting my total workout time
to below one hour. And, rather than implementing muscle confusion by
varying the exercise routine, I will simply periodically stop
bodybuilding in a technique HST calls Strategic Deconditioning.

This will reduce the total time that I spend exercising while still
promoting both hyperplasia and hypertrophy. I want to simply maintain a
normal amount of muscle mass of a 50 year old as I progress into my
70's, 80's and 90's. I don't want super big muscles, now or anytime in
the future.

WillBrink

In article <1117385933.105991.223970@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Mr-Natural-Health" <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:

> WillBrink wrote:
>
> > > I saw some recent photos of Arnold Swarchenegger last night. That guy
> > > now looks like the adverage fat slob who has never worked out in their
> > > entire life, with absolutely no muscle definition.
> >
> > I saw Arnold in person a few months ago, as I do every year, and he
> > looked great for his age.
> >
> > > Arnold Swarchenegger's image is all BullShit.
>
> I don't know when or where the pictures were taken, but Arnold
> Swarchenegger was at a beach in swiming trunks. And, he was clearly
> totally out of shape.

Everyone saw the picture, and no, it was not flattering to him I agree.
How does that = his image is bullshit?

>
> It appears that Arnold maintains his bodybuilding image by wearing
> clothes.
>
> Ha, ... Hah, Ha! At some point in his recent life, Arnold clearly lost
> his bodybuilding physique.

News flash: Everyone loses their bodybuilding physique.

>
> Perhaps, Arnold engages in yo yo bodybuilding?

I'm sure Arnold wishes oh so much he could exchange his physique and
life for yours.
>

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/