The clients of Michele Ferrari

Originally Posted by Flyer

No one mentioned Denis Zanetti---he died in 2003 and was David Rebellin's teammate at Liquigas.

Zanetti was a Conconi client at one time.

He was not as famous as Pantani---but died at age 32, two years younger than did Marco.

Marco Pantani is the most famous of the dead athletes-----but he is hardly a special case.

He was typical of many drug addicted athletes in many sports.

Look for many more similar stories.

Originally Posted by Flyer

Panatni did die at age 34 no? Is this the same non-doper to whom you refer?

Unfortunately, no one is judging sport/business other than the corporate advertisers. Thus toxic levels of doping and tragedies of Marco Pantani are doomed to repeat themselves over and over.

I could not disagree more re: Panatani tainted TDF victory. In that event a 'doping control truce' was fashioned by organizers in order to prevent more teams from abandoning---which they would have done.

Marco Pantani's surprise victory in the 1998 TDF would never have occured w/o the wholesale abandonment of 40% of the field and the commercial disaster (PR damage control) that ensued.

Festina, TVM, Once and riders such as Alex Zulle and Laurent Jalabert leaving or being arrested destroyed the competion.

Not since 1978 has a TDF yellow jersey contender been disqualified--and then only a 30 day suspension after Michel Pollentier's rubber bladder mechanism failed to deposit the clean urine of another.

The 1998 Tour de France results are tainted, badly.

That TDF should have been cancelled but because of the advertising refunds and permanent fallout, the 'show must go on mantra' ruled the day.

Pantani was as medicated in 1998 and he was at any other time in his career.

You better tell Gilberti Simoni about your cocaine awareness---he thinks it is a 'stimulant' and thus a performane enhancer. Especially, if your are exhausted.

Frank Vandenbrocke probably needs your insights too. As does David Millar and the entire pro peleton.

Cocaine may be less toxic than the Pot Belge that has been used for years--including in the 1998 TDF.

If it makes you feel better, Armstrong's TDF victories appear as tainted as Pantani's.

Same problem, different sponsored athlete.

Originally Posted by Flyer

Next I suppose you will tell us when Marco first injected Human Growth hormones or what month/year he began insulin/glocuse rejuvenation.

Look, these people are all drug addicted personalities---in additional highly stressed athletes with job insecurity and advertising pressure for results.

When you combine these factors it is no surprise that so many cyclists, 1) get mysterious and vexing illnesses (Hincapie, Armstrong, Strock, Kaiter, Lemond, Trent Lowe, Millar, Clavelorent, Jeminez, etc...) 2) die by age 45, 3) develop cocaine habits.

Before you judge cocaine use as a PED, consider the abuse of Pot Belge (Heroin, Morphine, corticosteroids and Cocaine) as a PED. Insofar as foolishness? Madness is a better word.

If Willy Voet had not been jacked up on this junk in 1998 we would not have enjoyed the Lille Trials in October 2000, not Marco Panani's TDF victory.

Without the 1998 TDF doping scandal Pantani would not have won that race.

He couldn't time trial and could not sprint. He required steep and long Mountains, heavy rain, mechanical trouble and bonking from his rivals in order to claim his prize.

If you know anything about addiction, you will know that habitual lying is as common as breathing.

Marco and his pro peloton peers are all drug addicts--and all liars too. It goes hand in hand.

We are not kicking Pantani---if you read the posts, Lance Armstrong gets most of the blame--as he actively denies using drugs despite his growing crowd of insiders who caim he is a bald face liar.

The Pantani legacy is that he was killed by drug abuse and he was a Champion cyclist. This is the message to the public and it a true story.

The media did not inject Marco with drugs---he did.

Originally Posted by Flyer

Sorry Charlie, Marco Pantani was a Francesco Conconi client--as was Denis Zanetti.

Neither of these athletes are with us today to 'deny PED abuses' so we need to grasp the obvious.

If you are implying that Pantani won his 1998 double, and danced away with Lance Armstrong in the 2000 TDF while using mineral water only---you are quite mistaken.

I don't need to condemn Marco for being a doper--despite it being an absolute fact---instead I condemn the entire pro peleton as being 100% abusers of drugs--then denying it, covering it up, activity enforcing an omerta, an evil code of silence/denial, and the promoters and advertisers both fund and supervise this fraud.

I did not imply Pantani was a cheat--a doper absolutely. They all dope--so cheating amongst cheaters is a tricky distinction. Leaders may get better drugs and better mad-doctor care than the rest. Is that cheating too?

Originally Posted by Flyer

There were no 'undoped' champions in cycling.


I am not the one suggesting that Marco Pantani was the last 'doping free' Grand Tour Champion which you appear to be doing. Lord knows why?

We know Marco died of a drug overdose at age 34. That is an absolute fact that you fail to accept.

Of all cyclists, Pantani is the poster child for doping in pro-cycling. No presumption needed.

Your position that somehow, Pantani was murdered by advertisers or by Italian sporting authorites is weak compared to his public record of suspensions, reckless driving, bi-polar condition, court cases and finally his own chemical demise.

You discredit the man who gave his life to point out the obvious fact. Grand Tour Champions use drugs, all manner of them.

Pantani is the modern legacy of doping in cycling.

Others will follow his example.

Originally Posted by ilpirata

.....<snip>.... I would like someone to prove to me that there is a higher percentage of drug addicts among cyclists and retired cyclists than in the general population...<snip>