The clients of Michele Ferrari

Originally Posted by MJtje

Huh it is widely known (also in the cycling world) that Pantani was a doper..........so my perception is based on story's that I read/watch and from forums....

Originally Posted by Flyer

Panatni did die at age 34 no? Is this the same non-doper to whom you refer?

Unfortunately, no one is judging sport/business other than the corporate advertisers. Thus toxic levels of doping and tragedies of Marco Pantani are doomed to repeat themselves over and over.

I could not disagree more re: Panatani tainted TDF victory. In that event a 'doping control truce' was fashioned by organizers in order to prevent more teams from abandoning---which they would have done.

Marco Pantani's surprise victory in the 1998 TDF would never have occured w/o the wholesale abandonment of 40% of the field and the commercial disaster (PR damage control) that ensued.

Festina, TVM, Once and riders such as Alex Zulle and Laurent Jalabert leaving or being arrested destroyed the competion.

Not since 1978 has a TDF yellow jersey contender been disqualified--and then only a 30 day suspension after Michel Pollentier's rubber bladder mechanism failed to deposit the clean urine of another.

The 1998 Tour de France results are tainted, badly.

That TDF should have been cancelled but because of the advertising refunds and permanent fallout, the 'show must go on mantra' ruled the day.

Pantani was as medicated in 1998 and he was at any other time in his career.

You better tell Gilberti Simoni about your cocaine awareness---he thinks it is a 'stimulant' and thus a performane enhancer. Especially, if your are exhausted.

Frank Vandenbrocke probably needs your insights too. As does David Millar and the entire pro peleton.

Cocaine may be less toxic than the Pot Belge that has been used for years--including in the 1998 TDF.

If it makes you feel better, Armstrong's TDF victories appear as tainted as Pantani's.

Same problem, different sponsored athlete.

Originally Posted by limerickman

You could substitute one name in the above sentance (change Pantani to Armstrong).

But then you'd be screaming, where's the proof ?

Originally Posted by VeloFlash

Ilpirata

The fundamental reason why no one was caught on a large scale in the 1998 TdF after the police moved in was the lack of a blood test for EPO (and Hgh). The police were looking for the tools of trade (syringes, etc) and stock (drugs).

You said: Naturally on appeal, the charges (against Pantani) are dropped because in 1995 there was no rule against high hematocrit, and it is was not a crime.

I understand that a lot of athletes in Italy were able to be acquitted of the charges of sporting fraud because the evidence of guilt related to periods before the law was introduced.

The law was not retrospective and it would have been unjust if it was made retrospective.

I believe this applied to Pantani's Hct level in 1995 and not the fact the UCI had not introduced the 50% health risk rule. EPO was certainly on the banned drug list in 1995 but there was no test to evidence its use in an athlete.

Originally Posted by MJtje

Dude we don't know........only 3/4 people know around armstrong! And I will sleep fine if he gets caught, life goes on! As I said before it's not the end of the world. But hee let me stop here........you have some weird image about me (ooh in particular if youre a fan of armstrongs riding, BECAUSE that is not done in youre world) Luckily I respect youre talk about ullrich.......but hee it must be FRUSTATING to have so much tourtalk going on. And no one posting about the ULLRICH's of the world! Know go back and post some good stuff about cycling, because you can do much better!

Originally Posted by Flyer

Pantani benefited tremendously from the exclusion of Alex Zulle and his powerful Festina Team--which I believe was ranked #1 in the world in 1998. His bold early attack on the rainy Col du Tormulet might have failed if Festina riders could help to organize a chase.

Your favorite rider, Laurent Jalabert abandoned in a hissy fit as his team was undoubtedly targeted bu police for surprise searches.

Jan Ulrich suffered a puncture and a long wait for a spare---then bonked later on.

Without some intervention between; 1) the promoter, 2) riders as a union 3) the police, the tour would have been cancelled and no winner ever recorded.

A truce was declared, the show went on---albeit with only 2/3 of the riders and a winner was posted.

That winner turned out to be a drug user. More importantly, that winner was the last man not name Lance to win a Tour de France.

Is that not both ironic and prophetic too?

Originally Posted by ilpirata

<snip> excerpt from Pantani letter
It is pleasing to me that I know that I have never failed a drug test…<snip>

Originally Posted by Flyer

And you guys cannot run a race, nor declare a victor in a race without all the doped ponies in the gates.

The 1998 TDF was a patchwork of police intervention and behind the scences wrangling. 40% of the field abandoned under fear or arrest.

Festina had a powerful---and doped team in 1998. (Herve, Virenque, Brochard, Zulle, etc...)

Jalabert quit the race.

Neil Stephens and TVM got caught in doping too--and withdrew.

We cannot say whether Marco Pantani would have won the race without these enormous advantages----.

A monster footnote remains on that tainted race.

But it is especially prophetic that the last man to win the Tour de France, not named Lance, was indeed a drug user and abuser.

That statement is absolutely true and correct.