Kim Sebrango as Director, Marketing Operations

Eddie Arzouian

I'll just wait some more.


As I have said, I'm in it for the long haul, whatever it takes.

How long do you think Sebrango will last?

She bounced from football, to soccer to skating, what does she care about cycling.

She could be marketing vacuum cleaners it would be all the same.

I'm betting 18 months, if that.

You will find nobody thrilled about this hiring that knows anything about cycling. If yu are thrilled about it you don't know anything about
competitive cycling.

All we have here is another Sport Canada bureaucrat who moved her stuff over from one desk in one federation to a desk in another federation, the CCA offices are just more removed than most.

Next year she may be in canoeing and kayaking.

Ask her if she can get you some deals on Ottawa Rough Rider tickets!

Van de Wille

Bounced? 6 years in football, then 10 years in soccer, then 2-3 in skating. As far as I can tell, her shortest stint at those jobs matches your longest stint at any job - is that correct?


Maybe cycling could use someone like that, instead of people we've always had, who were either unconcerned with marketing at all or who limited themselves to only marketing the sport to cyclists. I know a guy who has sold everything from laminate flooring to industrial electrical systems to software, and done well at every one of them. Myself, I've done PR for everything from pulp & paper companies to tobacco companies to software developers. In business, that's considered a good thing.

Uboat

hahahahahahahahahaha, great point Patrick!

"Bounced? 6 years in football, then 10 years in soccer, then 2-3 in skating. As far as I can tell, her shortest stint at those jobs matches your longest stint at any job - is that correct?

Eddie Arzouian

-Patrick Van de Wille on www.cyclingforums.com under "Canada".

OK, Kim Sebrango, recently hired as the CDN Cycling Assoc. Marketing Director, spent ten years at Soccer Canada, let's look at that.

Here is what Patrick had to say back in February 2005 about the state of soccer in Canada and it was not good.

That's where Sebrango spent most of her time. Another good job! After watching the Ottawa Rough Riders die as Director of Ticket Sales, she watched the decline of soccer. Maybe that is why she then went to Skate Canada? It looks like a slippery slope. Skate Canada seems to have caught on quick as she was not there very long. I expect her to be in cycling for even less time.


You say it yourself below, Patrick, soccer is in trouble in Canada. And you say you know soccer. Soccer's where Sebrango spent most of her time. It is a mass participation sport for little kids with poor internatioal results, poor spectator turnout (except Montreal, what's new?), little commercial and little funding.

It has no professional strucure, according to you.


Is that where we want cycling to go?


Care to clarfiy your comments, Patrick?

I think most people agree soccer has been a failure commercially in Canada, apart from Montreal. That's what you said below, isn't it Patrick?
Canada's international results in soccer are WORST than in cycling.

Is this really what we want to emulate?


Patty the Lapsed Canuck

from Pedalmag.com forum

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 485



2) Read my soccer rebuttal carefully Ed: from what was once a cross-Canada pro league, Canada is down to three professional soccer teams. One of those teams is well-run and averages 9,000+ per game. The other two are, I believe, also competently-run (certainly Vancouver), but interest being what it is they average about 3,000 per game, often less. That is the result of the professional model for soccer in Canada. The Calgary Mustangs website leads with a quote that says: "You can add the Mustangs to the long list of extinct Calgary soccer clubs..." And that's for a sport that drawfs cycling in terms of mass participation.




and:


Guest


I think this "Guest' was Patrick posting without logging on under his regular username due ot changing computers, see the "my Executive Producer" refercne. Patrick did soccer broadcasts...





2) What do you know about soccer to judge the management of either of Canada's two remaining non-Impact clubs? The Vancouver Whitecaps are a tremendous organization that has existed for as long as I can recall. No idea about the Lynx, but I don't necessarily take a dim view when I don't have any information. The problem with soccer in Canada is that, outside of the one city you keep falling back on, it is not in the mass media category and pro structures simply don't fit it.

"Problem", so there is a problem, right Patrick?

Great and we have just hired somebody from soccer and made it her job to commuicate with the media!!!! Something she failed to do for ten years with Soccer Canada.


Maybe Patrick can explain his comments???

I love how they always come back to haunt him.





There are a number of people in Canada who know more about soccer than I do, Ed, but you are not one of them. You managed Evian: my executive producer was the commissioner of the A-league, in which the Impact play. Stick to areas of expertise: your fabled rebuttal of my rebuttal (which you evidently foresaw, professional writer that you are) won't work if the "success" of pro soccer in Canada is your case study.




I'm assuming you put "success" in quotation marks to stress the irnoy and what you really meant was "failure", right?

So soccer is a failure and the person who over saw it for ten years has now moved on to our sport, cycling. And this is somehow a good thing????

Please explain Patrick. Which Van de Wille statement are we supposed to believe today?

I'm only asking....

Van de Wille

It's a nice try, Ed, but that entire thread was about European pro structures not fitting non-major sports like cycling and soccer - not about mismanagement of soccer. In fact, I say the opposite - that to my knowledge all the teams in Canada are competently run. They just can't justify large stadiums and a national league schedule along the lines of the European model. Nothing to do with mismanagement, either by the clubs or the CSA.

In fact, given the fact that Canada has consistently moved down the world rankings over the past 20 years, their marketing has been nothing short of genius. Starting with a joint venture in 1998 with IMG (recognizing the need for actual experts), they closed 8-year TV deals in Canada and internationally that put something like 20 games per year on the tube. Those games cost the Canadian Soccer Association no money to produce, and they get to share ad revenue and license fees. Their marketing programs alone bring in more per year than the CCA's entire budget, if I remember correctly the CCA's budget.

Van de Wille

And nothing I say "comes back to haunt me," Ed. They just get regurgitated ad-nauseam by you and your Google-like memory: all keywords, no context.

Eddie Arzouian

Spin away fella.


I think your comments about soccer were quite clear.

Say what you like now.

As for those numbers, if you can find them anywhere please post them.

I'm afraid, once again, I just have trouble to believe you. You remind me of a fish who landed on my dock this weekend, flip-flop, flip-flop....

You wrote in Febraury, "The problem with soccer in Canada is that, outside of the one city you keep falling back on, it is not in the mass media category".

Isn't TV mass media? Were all those TV deals you just mentioned penned after you wrote your comment in Febraury? Sebrango wasn't with Soccer Canada then anyway?

You clearly wrote "Soccer is not in the mass media category".

Now you tell us of great TV deals?

So which is it? What are we to believe?

Were you wrong in February or are you wrong now? Were you wrong both times? The statements are mutually exclusive so they cannot both be right.

How can we be sure. How stupid do you think people are? Do you think they cannot read?

Flip-flop, flip-flop...!


Do we believe your comment now or your comment in February?

Van de Wille

Ah, whatever - you just got another pronouncement of yours slam-dunked in your face and you're trying to switch to whether I'm a flip-flopper. Anything to say about the Canadian Soccer Association's marketing? In 2003 it brought in $1.5M - the CCA's budget is $1.8M. I was off by $300K.

Mass media sports are basketball, baseball, hockey, NASCAR, etc - sports the mass media work hard to cover. Soccer and cycling are not in that category. Amazing how much time I spend explaining things to you that everyone understands.

Van de Wille

Amazing what a glutton you are for this! What a verbal punching-bag!

Eddie Arzouian

Ahhh, if only Patrick were more truthful.


You are going to look pretty silly here, Paddy.

Here is Steve Lacelle, CCA Chief Operating Officer's 90-day report

FINANCIAL POSITION

"Audited financial statements for 2003/04 show a surplus of $35,037 on revenues of $2,532,361 and expenses of $2,497,324. Of those dollars, 69% were allocated to High Performance and Development Programs, 26% to Management Expenses, and 5% to other business activities. Statements for 2004/05 are not yet available, but will be made public in July of this year. "

Oooow, budget of $1.8 million, you say???? Care to give us your source? Any audited sources for you, Paddy?

And you want to tell us that $1.5 million in marketing for soccer is a godsend, with 500,000 kids playing, or whatever number you want to quote for that mass participation....

Ski Canada gets $12 million in sponsorship.

So we hire somebdoy who after ten years on the job in same position is getting only about the same as the CCA WITHOUT a Marketign Director for two years!!!


CCA gets $1.2 million from Sport Canada so their other sources of revenue add up to $1.3 million. You tell us (without documentation or citation) that Soccer Canada gets $1.5 million in marketing revenue. Are we looking at only $200,000 difference or there abouts? Kim Sebrango was on the job full-time and the CCA had the position empty for two years and Soccer Canada got only $200,000 more?????

Furthermore, Kim Senbrango was not at Soccer Canada in 2003 was she? she left a year or more before that.

Punching bag????? Oh yeah!

I'll say!

Van de Wille

I got my $1.8 from the 2003 AGM president's report, here: http://www.canadian-cycling.com/Eng...7s%20Report.pdf

But judging that the CSA's overall budget is $10M or thereabouts, and that they only get $620K from the gov't, I have to assume license fees make up a significant part of the budget. Wouldn't it be the same at the CCA?

Besides, I don't think you can take half their budget that isn't Sport Canada money, call it "marketing", and compare it to the CSA's marketing revenue. Given that you constantly rail away at the CCA for their lack of marketing, what would you estimate their marketing revenue is? Apart from the Tim Horton's deal, what is there?

And the CSA's marketing revenues have consistently grown from the point of their joint venture with IMG in 1998 through to the current day, including 4 years when Sebrango was there.

Eddie Arzouian

We all owe Patrick Van de Wille a great debt for bring us this information:


The CCA without a Marketign Director is bringing in just about the same marketing revenue as Kim Sebrango brought in at Soccer Canada after ten years of work!

Yup, we want her in our sport.

Leaving the position empty brought us the same as soccer got having her working!

Thx, Patrick for pointing that out!

You proved both my points at once. One, Sebrango is mediocre at best, two, we cannot trust your "facts" and "figures".

Sebrango fits right into the CCA, "approach of aim low and achieve even less..."

We await further spin from you......

This is turning out to be a lot of fun.

Van de Wille

Drop the funky math, Ed. So the CCA brought in $1.2M from the gov't of a total budget of $2.5M, and you're calling the difference "marketing revenue"? What about license fees? Sanctioning fees?

Soccer Canada had a budget of about $6M in 2003, of which only $600K came from the gov't. Was the rest "marketing revenue"?

Soccer Canada's REAL marketing revenue for 03 was $1.15M from IMG, $300K in event receipts and $120K in TV rights. They also got $785K in appearance fees for their national team, which could be attributed to marketing.

What was the CCA's marketing revenue?

Eddie Arzouian

The CCA President's Report of 2003 would have the budget for the year 2002-2003.


The CCA does not issue licenses (with one or two exceptions), again you are showing your lack of understanding of how the sport works. Provinces issue licenses.

As for sanction fees, I'm not even sure how much that would get the CCA if most races are provincial.

You ask "what's the CCA's marketing revenue" and here I AGREE with you and ask the same question, "What is the CCA's REAL marekting revenue?'

We do not know because the way Lacelle presented his numbers it was hidden.

There's that transparency problem, again.

About all we can discern from, all this, Patrick is that we both agree the CCA could sue a lot more transparency in its numbers. Almost nobody has a clear picture of what's what and that includes many directors and committee chairs at the CCA itself.

That is the way Bill Kinash wants to run things. He has Steve Lacelle doign the same thing.

The other conclusion I would draw is that Soccer Canada has about the same mediocre performance in terms of marketing that the CCA does.

Sebrango worked no miralces there, that is for sure. Ten years of work and they are only slightly better off than the CCA which was almost rudderless when it came to marketing for ten years.

If you want to accept the mediocrity, then everything could be fine.

If you were looking to change things and perform at a better level, I see absolutely no indcation that that will happen. In fact, given that cyclign is far more complex sport in temrs of clubs, teams, trade teams, organizers, sanctions, International rules, etc. etc. etc, I expect things to get worse with Sebrango not better, sinc eti wil tak eher a year or more to get up to speed.

I do not think she will prove effective from what we can see in the past.

You are absolutely entitled to have another opinion.

Time will tell.