T-Mobile strategy

MJtje

Nope it was attack by himself I guess........he was in front and the sprinters teams were completely exhausted after a hard day pullin back that break.........so he had a go!

Well it turned out to be a very nice attack, but it could have turned out really bad. He won't do this a 2nd time!!!

IF he will attack again in the end of a sprinter stage LA won't follow.........then better lose some seconds instead of the chance that he crashes and that his TDF is over.....

It's all about who wants to take the biggest risks...........

whiteboytrash

read it and weep it was a T-Mobile move.......

http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=1371

Those Disco boys better think of some new ways to counter T-mobile... surly they can’t use the same tired formula as the last 487 years ?

MJtje

Jep I read it.........ooh yes they can use that tiredly formula........it's been effective huh the last 6 years

And btw IF Vino attacks early will Disco really be chasing as the only team or will CSC, Liberty, Rabo help, because he's also attacking there GC men. Think about that one............Vino could be digging his own grave with all those attacks.......

sonicman

What does this mean? That Vinokourov is the new team leader or that he and Ullrich will make alternate attacks, forcing Armstrong to match them and tiring him?

whiteboytrash

hmmmm not sure..... we all know what Disco do in the mountains.... the team sets a high tempo then Armstrong attacks somewhere between 10-7km to go.... we all know that..... he does not like repeated attacks and they have not trained for this.... they train making Armstrong attack in the final kms...... and no the others will make him chase.... if you look at the photos before the stages have a look at the other riders chatting to Ulle and Vino.... remember LA wont be around next year so there will be no more memories...... make him earn his yellow.... and they will.....

WBT out.

MJtje

I suspect that VINO will attack first and that Ulle will wait and watch how the rest reacts and tries to do something at the last climb. Vino possibly going allready on a climb earlier.......

Then again.......ulle is not a person who can react to fast changes of rhytm! Haha Vino could also kill Jan on the climbs..............leaving jan for dead behind........ouch interesting days to come!

rejobako

Riiight. As is usual with this sort of nonsense, the "proof" only exists if you apply a lot of presumptions.

"parts of a telephone conversation can be heard between the American and the Italian, who has shortly before learned about the seriousness of his mother’s cancer. Only Basso’s responses are heard, but at the end Basso tells Armstrong: “In this Tour – if you need something you just ask for it.”
So you only hear Basso talking, with no idea of the context of Armstrong's responses. You can assume, if it pleases you, that Basso's statement quoted above equates to a promise to defer to Armstrong in the GC race -- then again, maybe he was providing a general statement of support. I've often made statements to friends like: "You need anything, just let me know". That doesn't mean I'd give them my first-born if they asked for it.

As for this one:



"Later we see Basso talking to manager Bjarne Riis about a conversation he’s had with Armstrong, in which Armstrong has told Basso to if he stays close to him on Friday he’ll end far up on Saturday. “He wants to decide the Tour on the weekend,” Basso tells Riis."

I suppose this qualifies as at least innuendo, but not much else. Armstrong told a fellow rider that finishing close to him on a couple of mountain stages is a good idea. Good advice, in my opinion. Sounds more like wink-wink bravado than wink-wink conspiracy, but then again, I don't consider it sport to sit around and think of ways to try to diminish Armstrong's considerable achievements.

In other words, L-man, although I respect your opinions on this and many other issues, what your linked article "proves" is that Basso and Armstrong developed a rapport with each other in last years tour, possibly borne of the link between Armstrong's cancer and that of Basso's mother. I can buy the premise that perhaps Basso wasn't as motivated to try to beat Armstrong as he might have another rider, but as for a literal or tacit agreement to sandbag himself, I just don't see it.

limerickman

The fact of the matter is that two teams, which are supposed to be competing with each other, were engaged in phone conversations.
As a cycling fan, you'd be aware that when this conversation took place last year, the race was finely poised with Basso and LA contending for first and second place.
Why would first and second place be phoning each other ?

I only replied to your point because you attempted to diminish the point that there was something going on between LA and Basso at the 2004 TDF, by referring to it as being hilarious.

At a minimum, that conversation referred by Procycling shows that they were in cahoots to some degree.

rejobako

Your point is taken to the extent that you have indeed convinced me that Armstrong and Basso's conversations were more involved than I had been aware, although as to your question of "why would they be talking to each other" -- it was reported by several sources last year that Armstrong, upon learning of Basso's mother's battle with pancreatic cancer, took it upon himself to talk to Basso about referrals to specific physicians, to lend support through his foundation, etc. A cynic would suggest his motivations were self-interested. Perhaps, but it does provide a plausible explanation of why the #1 and #2 GC contenders would be on the telephone, other than to swear a blood oath to each other.

As for my "hilarious" comment, I was simply commenting on your characterization that telephone conversations can be "captured on film". Not unless you have two cameras and a split screen . . . .

Ted B

It's difficult to interpret the real details of that situation from such a distant, third-party perspective. However, learning that one's mother has serious cancer almost certainly renders the TdF and competitive nature in general suddenly much less important. Perhaps Basso found himself upset enough with the news such that he turned to the world's foremost spokesperson for cancer patients, and fellow cyclist for a bit of emotional support. One could also speculate that Basso more or less conceded his chances at winning the tour right there, while LA on the other hand never had any notion of NOT winning it. With this being a mutual realization, LA more or less offered his wheel as a conciliatory gesture, which was obviously accepted. With that, Riis maybe opted for the offer of a 'bird in the hand' with a podium finish given the emotional state of his top rider. Of course, this is but wild speculation.

Nevertheless, bravado on LA's part it is, but then again, it's that type of confidence and determination that factors into LA's TdF record, regardless of the true nature of said conversation.

MJtje

So 1st and 2nd place can't be friends............off-court/off-road they can be friends in the peloton they need to be enemy's!

Basso was to nice, because he knew last year he would lose the tour! That's the problem with most riders.........(in there heart they know there is one cocky texan who doesn't give a F*** what people think of him: just winning the race which matters to his sponsors) That's how a sportmind needs to work.....the selfish ones are the best!

Ullefan

allez VINOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

JohnO

And what if they were? Is it acceptable for two or three teams to collude to attack Armstrong and DC, but unacceptable for DC to collude with another team to stay on top? Whether or not that was in CSC's best interests is a matter for Riis to decide.

I believe there have been quite a few occasions in the last six tours where teams have worked together to (unsuccessfully) attack LA. And other teams have worked to help him. Unless UCI regulations forbid it (and they don't) co opting the assistance of other teams is just part of a winning formula. Always has been.

In any case, I have a hard time believing that Riis and Basso would bargain away the MJ when they were that close. Whatever DC could have promised them would pale in comparision to the prestige of being the team that knocked Lance out of a record breaking #6.

And the suggestion that Lance used his assistance with Basso's mother as a quid pro quo for help in the 2004 TDF is not just inaccurate, it's callous beyond words. Lance's record in that regard is crystal clear: he has helped anyone who asks for assistance with cancer, and has never asked for anything in return. Procycling should be ashamed of themselves for even hinting at such a wretched suggestion.