Page 9 - Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler

17-07.-2005, 04:10 AM

#121

rejobako

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Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by azdroptop

I was kind of thinking it was more of a Lance letting him go kind of thing? Which in a way was proven when Lance decided to regain the pack with complete ease.

I agree. There were 5 minutes of real suspense today, when Armstrong seemed to be sitting back assessing the strength of the group in which he remained, while the group led by T-Mobile went ahead. I'm guessing Lance/Bruyneel were trying to assess where the rest of the Disco boys were (answer: waaaaay back there), and once it became clear that he was among a group unlikely to help him up to the front, he bridged the gap. That, in my opinion, is the first time this July that we saw a true flash of why Armstrong has owned this race for so long. He leaped across and looked fresh as a daisy when he got there. As I recall, as soon as he rejoined the group Vino tried to go out in front again, and this time Lance, securely tucked among Ullrich/Basso/Kloden, said "be my guest -- you've shown a tendency to hit the wall, and I suspect I'll see you soon".

17-07.-2005, 04:17 AM

#122

Ullefan

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Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJtje

Pfff boring discussing........not once did it slip my mind and besides the rest got food and drinks from saunier duval so what's the problem! You don't need to overanalyse every tiny bit.........

Better discussion there is defenitely a conflict in T-mobile with kloden driving after Vino.........And will T-Mobile have the power to do it again after this HUGE effort??

I think that tomorrow there will be less big attacks then today.......simply because the stage is to hard....

Jan didn't have one bottle on his bike all the way up the last climb, that has to affect you. Kloden should have handed his bottle over, at the very least since it was impossible for the car to come through.

17-07.-2005, 04:29 AM	#123
davidbod Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 712	Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler Those T-Mobile tactics may not be as stupid as you think. Normally what should have happened is JU and AK fade to the back of the group as Vino was on the attack, and then wait for someone else to respond. The problem with that is the reaction from the field may not have come until Vino was some ways up the road. Somone like Basso or Armstrong would wait, then burst to bridge the gap to Vino forcing the others into a rapid pace to bridge the gap also. JU does not have the ability to bring on a burst of speed and bridge a gap quickly. Kloden did a good job of keeping a good consistent tempo for Jan which is what he needs. If Jan was forced to follow attack after attack, he would lilkely have been the first one out the back door of all the riders in the group. In my opinion Jan is pretty much screwed when it comes to beating Lance. The only tactic to use is to attack him with pace changes to weeken him, but the problem is this puts Jan out the back door first.

17-07.-2005, 04:37 AM

#124

Ullefan

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Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidbod

Those T-Mobile tactics may not be as stupid as you think. Normally what should have happened is JU and AK fade to the back of the group as Vino was on the attack, and then wait for someone else to respond. The problem with that is the reaction from the field may not have come until Vino was some ways up the road. Somone like Basso or Armstrong would wait, then burst to bridge the gap to Vino forcing the others into a rapid pace to bridge the gap also. JU does not have the ability to bring on a burst of speed and bridge a gap quickly. Kloden did a good job of keeping a good consistent tempo for Jan which is what he needs. If Jan was forced to follow attack after attack, he would lilkely have been the first one out the back door of all the riders in the group.

In my opinion Jan is pretty much screwed when it comes to beating Lance. The only tactic to use is to attack him with pace changes to weeken him, but the problem is this puts Jan out the back door first.

I saw Jan close the gap to riders many times today, when Basso accelerated, Jan was right on his wheel. Too much has been said about him not having the sudden acceleration. It was more likely rather that he hit a smal wall by not having a bottle all the way up the climb. When your water levels drop even slightly, performance decreases by as much as 20%. (no, i'm not Chris Carmichael)

17-07.-2005, 04:48 AM

#125

davidbod

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Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ullefan

True, but the kind of move Lance made to bridge the large gap to the T-Mobile riders on the second to last climb, Jan would never be able to follow. He can make modest pace changes while climbing to follow some attacks, but he can't quickly bridge a large gap.

17-07.-2005, 05:00 AM

#126

Ullefan

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Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidbod

His power/weight ratio works against him on a climb, yes, but you must consider that Lance wasn't suffering at all and the gap wasn't that large at 15 seconds. I don't buy that ''Jan would never be able to follow'' he certainly would be at a disadvantage on the steeper climbs because of power/weight ratio, but on a less steep climb, his power/weight ratio works in his advantage. True, some riders have more explosive capabilities than others, Lance just happens to be very explosive.

17-07.-2005, 05:01 AM	#127
azdroptop Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 804	Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler I was just thinking that maybe instead of attacking the last time Vino could have helped pull Klodin and Ullrich along for awhile so Jan could attack hard? It will be interesting to see where Vino ends up next year...

17-07.-2005, 06:05 AM

#128

jhuskey

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Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by androo

The reason Ullrich & Kloden set off after Vino is because there is a conflict of interest in the Telekom camp and that is why Vino will be from next year in the Discovery Team....

androo

Really! You apparently know more than I about Telekom. I know of no conflict in this years tour.
Last year for sure, but not now.

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Sobriety is over rated!

17-07.-2005, 06:18 AM	#129
sonicman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 142	Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler Once again DC made the same mistake, they let T-Mobile control the peloton in the start of the Port de Pailheres, so when Vino attacked they had nothing to do. But even with this problem once again Lance once again blown out T-Mobile, Kloden and Vino are far behind in the GC now and Ullrich due to his body cannot follow fast attacks like the ones Armstrong usually launch. Basso once again could follow him, and also Levi and Floyd did a good job today. Rasmussen due to his lack of speed in the Time Trials should now focus in keeping the poka dot jersey and staying in the top 3.

17-07.-2005, 06:42 AM

#130

musette

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Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidbod

That observation just reinforces the stupidity of the TM tactics. If you know your leader is not the "bridging immediately up" sort and you know Vino doesn't have too much left in the tank, why have Vino try to attack again?

17-07.-2005, 06:57 AM

#131

Girotour

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Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidbod

Agreed

Jan and Vino are best friends since years, they go on holidays together, so is Klöden. I don't think Vino is angry about anything, it's his role, to attack and to isolate Lance. He is not strong enough in the mountains to win the Tour in a direct fight with Lance and he realized it.

17-07.-2005, 07:11 AM

#132

Ullefan

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Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by musette

I don't think it was a stupid as you make it out to be. Vino was most likely instructed by his DS to attack and for Kloden and Ullrich to up the pace to him. The incentive was to make Lance crack, but because he didn't, it appears as though their tactics were 'stupid'.

17-07.-2005, 07:23 AM	#133
musette Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,405	Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler TM website observes: "Despite the fact that the toughest Pyrenean stage lies ahead tomorrow, few can doubt that Armstrong is well on his way to a seventh yellow jersey in Paris. This year´s Tour now looks like a battle for second and third place. Today, in the most thrilling stage yet, Armstrong was challenged, questions were asked of him, but the six-time champion had all the answers."' "Suddenly, Armstrong defied anyone who doubted his strength at this point by bridging the gap alone and with apparent ease."

17-07.-2005, 07:24 AM	#134
thebluetrain Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Tejas Posts: 923	Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler Give T-mobile and JU some credit. At least they are trying to crack LA. LA has been isolated early in 2 stages of this TdF. He is just to strong but I admire the T-mobile team for trying.

17-07.-2005, 07:40 AM	#135
Rockin' Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 4	Re: Stage 14 TDF : Agde - Ax-3 Domaines : Spoiler I think TM's main problem is their team, or lack thereof. They suffer from having too many chiefs and not enough indians. It is almost impossible to work as a team towards a goal when three team members have their own agendas. If I was Vino I would be pissed at what my teammates did to me today. On the point that they all vacation together and therefore give each other big group hugs, I go on vacation with my brother and his family but not because it is enjoyable. One last note and I will go. In JU's latest interview he states "I'm fed up with all those questions about my morale and my mental strength," Ullrich said. I think the amount of time he spent pulling at the front on the last climb answers that.

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