Lance Pissed at Evans???

wolfix

I see you list your location as Belize. What's the riding like down there? I was there many years ago and I understand as to how a person could realize the concept of "zen' there.
The speculation of LA at that given moment of time must be approached with care. And allow me to speculate as to the allowances of this forum's board as to when and how speculations are allowed and the way the posters react to the speculations. And the confusion as to the speculations of the posters and the expecttions of the posters. We must not allow our speculations become expectations and if this happens we must allow perfectations to exsist.
Damn..... I miss those nights in Belize.

WINGNUTT

Let's not let the "traditions" of the race come before the race itself. Traditions are quaint, and it's nice to see the riders respect the history of the race and blah blah blah, but seriously, if there's any more tradition in this race, it's going to turn into a club ride. If racers in any other form of racing showed this much courtesy to the other competitors, the fans would be demanding their money back. So, personally I'd like to see a little less respect and fear of the yellow jersey, and a few more hard hitting attacks, even if they aren't totally policically correct. It is still a race after all, right?

vadimivich

But cycling isn't so much about the attacks as it is the traditions. The flavor of the sport that makes it great is the small touches like that.

Armstrong tells many stories of being a young brash American who stepped on everyone's toes his first time in Europe. He didn't know any of the traditions, didn't know how to show respect. It says a lot that many of the former greats were people he befriended or at least had respectful relationships with (Merckx, Indurain, etc) as he grew up and matured.

Evans had a slight error in judgement yesterday, he gained nothing from what he did, but the peloton probably doesn't think highly of it.

limerickman

TV is being slightly untruthful here : Merckx did work at the front before the final 10% climb.
Maybe he didn't work as much as the others but he did work throughout the break away (I watched all of yesterdays stage :live).

musette

Part of it is that Evans was with the "big three" in the Tour. Those are likely the three podium finishers. Evans is a newbie to the Tour. Wholly apart from the Tour, Evans is a much less accomplished cyclist than the three cyclists he was with and that he tried to "show up". So it seemed like a gratuitous action that had no potential for anything meaningful to be achieved by Evans.

It would have been different if Evans were doing that to three not too accomplished cyclists.

limerickman

My view is that we don't know if LA was pissed off or not.

Which brings me to the issue of wheelsucking : over this side of the pond, a wheelsucker is someone who benefits, in material terms, for staying on peoples wheels.

Let's look at the CE incident - did CE's "wheelsucking" materially benefit him ?
No - not against LA/Basso/JU :
CE didn't gain an advantage of LA/Basso/JU.

I do agree Wolf, with having respect for the Yellow Jersey but was CE disrepectful of the Yellow Jersey ?
It's a matter of opinion.

I don't believe LA would have even noticed CE to be honest : he has no reason to notice him or what he did at the finish.

And finally, if I am out of order Wolf : instead of the tab of Guinness, my punishment ought to be 6 hour ride through the Grand Canyon with three of your woollen jerseys on my back !

Michaelz

As has been pointed out we don't actually know if Lance was pissed or not. It might have been a simple "didn't you realize there were no time gaps and you wasted energy for no reason?" -- not as much a complaint as an education.

I haven't seen anyone mention the context prior to the last 100m. Armstrong put in a long pull for the last several hundred meters for no gain. Basso and Ullrich are with him, and he can't possibly be worried about Rasmussen taking time out from him on a TT and taking the yellow jersey. What he was doing was helping two of his mountain companions, Basso and Ullrich, put time into Rasmussen. In essence he was saying "I can ride in a straight line at the front faster than you can right now, so tuck in behind me and you'll get the most that we can on the rest."

From Evan's perspective the explanation could be as simple as he thought they were racing for 10th and a time bonus that he wanted, but again he gave no indication he was going to contest the sprint.

Michael

roadhog

I'm glad you mentioned this. I was thinking about this while I watched it live and I also think LA was trying to work for Ullrich at least. Those two have a long history, they have always shown mutual respect, they have each waited for another following a crash at different times, and I think LA would much rather stand on his last podium with JU than with Rasmussen.

davidbod

Which is exactly why it was so stupid for CE to do what he did. He followed the train in, which is fine, but to then pip them all at the line just to get a minor placing difference?

Part of Lance's job as the Boss is to show those younger up and coming riders the ways of the peloton. If no one does this then the traditions of the peloton die.

wolfix

Wheel sucking on this side of the pond is also not respected .
Except when a rider has his team mate. in the following peloton and it is to the disadvantage of the team mate to pull through.

A sprinter can suck a climbers wheel on the climbs but not on the flats, except in the last meters setting up a sprint.

And this can be reversed . A climber can such wheels of a sprinter in the last meters leading up to the final sprint.
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But the traditions of the TDF are what makes it beautiful and not just another race. The traditions are remembered much longer then the riders themselves. This is a race that is over 100 years old , so history is a major part of the allure.
What Cadel did was probably a case of over excitement. Armstrong said what must have been said and left it at that. I doubt if Armstrong is pissed or has gave it any more thought then what was said at that moment. This is a situation where the media and "us guys" on this forum are making it an issue.
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The Grand Canyon in woolen jerseys??? That would be good. But I would want to ride and to be honest, I don't think there are any pubs in the bottom of the canyon. Tonight I will dig through my jersey collection and see what I can come up with. I have a beautiful Peugeot jersey but it hasn't fit me since my competitive days .....I don't have a Skil or a Kas.... I got it ...... I'll let you ride in one of my many Creda Raleigh ones ....

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mitosis

YOu are reading too much into it. IMO it was a spur of the moment thing that resulted from a CE who was pretty pleased with himself.

To say that he did it to upstage Armstrong is placing too much importance on the incident. In the scheme of the race and in the scheme of the stage it was nothing.

If anything, Armstrong chose to elevate it to importance by by his comment. If Armstrong had said nothing this thread would probably never have been started.

If it is true that Armstrong said nothing about it after the race then that demonstrates how important he thought it was.

I even had the thought that Armstrong was pissed off because CE would have been in the frame of photos of LA coming across the line, spoiling them in Armstrong's opinion - is Armstrong vain?

mitosis

I don't want to read too much into your forum name but is it fair to say that your views might be a little biased in favour of Disco.

You don't see a small difference between drafting for 200 k's to drafting for 3 at the end of a stage after working your ring out to contribute to the position of the group you happen to be in?

wolfix

That's really reaching to be anti-Discovery. Everyone knows that every Discovery fan has PHOTOSHOP and can blank Cadel out in all the photos they want......

Let's see...... Armstrong is now vain......
Armstrong is a doper......
Armstrong is a bully.....
Armstrong is a low paying employer....
Armstrong only wins because he races one race.....
I read today somewhere in a German magazine where Merckx undersatnds why LA is retiring after all the garbage LA has to endure.
Next year, the anti-Armstrong people get to see someone else win the TDF . But that winner will also have critics and an * next to his name. They will say he only won "BECAUSE ARMSTRONG RETIRED !"

mitosis

I'm not sure it is fair to blame Evans for the controversy(storm in a tea cup). Many people have made the point on this thread that the incident was insignificant. Lance was the one who made the comment, and from my reading of the post race interview, Evans is not the one who brought it up, he was just answering questions from the interviewer.

Respect is something earned. You don't gain respect by intimidating other riders but by setting an example. If Armstrong thought that Evans had breache some unwritten rule then Armstrong would have gained much more respect had he said nothing at the time but had had a quiet word to Evans afterward.

Bullying does not necessarily result from the words used but the timing, tone and context.