Lance Pissed at Evans???

artemidorus

The significance of a victory is diminished if it is given as a favour by a better rider on the day. A "no gifts" policy serves to guarantee a high level of athleticism. We would love to see Basso outsprint LA on the day, but are left uncertain of the meaning of the "victory" if the stage win is a scrap tossed to the dogs by the lord sitting at table.
In short, I think it is excessive to call LA an arsehole if he is not prepared to respect archaic tour traditions.

Michaelz

A bit late since I haven't had much time online, but yes, I do have some thoughts. I was a bit disappointed with Hincapie when it was down to just two guys. Surely by then he was told to just go for it and ride for himself. Watching the video it looked like he really didn't know what to do. (Anyone know if he's been in any mountaintop finishes in other races? I confess I really don't know, as I just follow the TdF.)

It's hard to tell what's going through a cyclist's head at the end of a long day. In the order of visual appearances that would have made me think the best of Hincapie I'd rank it:

Taking turns with Pereiro until the end.
Looking behind and looking confused (which is what he did).
Following Pereiro but looking straight ahead, making it clear his intention was to follow.

In this case he looked legitimately concerned about the riders behind, so I'm leaning towards giving him the benefit of the doubt as far as not quite knowing what he should be doing.

I'll also say that up until it was just the two of them I think he did everything by the book. He wasn't supposed to be pulling, and the riders with him would have known that.

Another thing I'll point out is that if Hincapie had taken a pull at the end with Pereiro it proabably wouldn't have changed the outcome -- Hincapie was favored to have the best sprint.

In Evan's case I'll also give him the benefit of the doubt that he might not have understood the situation. There was no time benefit to passing the three at the end (he might have thought the 10th place time bonus was still available?), and he might not have understood the non-verbal agreement that took place between Armstrong, Basso, and Ullrich.

And at the end of the day we only have Evan's interpretation of what Armstrong was thinking, and it could well have been "Why were you bothering to do that -- didn't you understand what was going on?" vs. actually being upset.

Michael

rejobako

Good post. Two thoughts: I doubt Evans was going for time bonuses -- to my knowledge there are never time bonuses that go beyond three places at a stage finish. (Point bonuses yes, but not time bonuses.)

Second, I agree completely with your last paragraph. The question, read without inflection, is a neutral one. It's not as if Armstrong said "What the hell was that all about, you insolent brat?" (although that would have been much more interesting) It is only by adding inflection that the question becomes a challenge -- although to be fair to Evans, he's the only one who heard Armstrong address him, and he was fairly clear in his opinion that Armstrong was pissed. I'm only guessing, of course, but from what I know of Armstrong, I would guess he was mildly annoyed, which he probably expresses in a fairly strong manner. Just look what he did on the podium yesterday when the fans wanted to hear about Basso. Yikes. Imagine what he's like when he's really angry.

wolfix

It has never been a tradition of the TDF for a man riding into the yellow as LA was to give bonus seconds to a man that was a high up contender. Basso was 3rd in 2004 and 7th in 2003. If Basso was low on GC it might have been a different matter. And in that stage , I believe Basso also attacked a few times up the slope. The tradition is when the riders work together and are not in competition for the yellow. And I believe that tradition is a gift to team mates only.
Asshole???? Merckx and Hinault were assholes . Fignon was an asshole. {Also Fignon was a Parisian, not a Frenchman, as he pointed out to many journalists} Lemond also carried that title to a smaller degree..... It seems to be a requirement to win the TDF. The world wants champions , not Mr. Rogers and his neighborhood.
History & the TDF traditions go hand in hand. History of the TDF is about how you win. History will show LA as a man who had meticulous prepartions to win the TDF. It will talk about how he dominated Ullrich in the TT's, when Ullrich was the supposed king TT'er of the day. History will show that LA never conceded anything to his rivals no matter how they attacked him. History will show him as a fighter, in the Merckx and Hinault mode. History is always gentle to winners and harsh to the losers.
It is not a personality contest. Indurain was probably the only multi-tour winner that did not have a "asshole" personality. His was worse, he had no personality.

spacefuzz

If you have ever raced you can understand why lance made that comment. There is always the one guy in the group who sprints for a meaningless place, even if you are minutes off the back of the pack. Its just mildly annoying getting passed at the line when you & the group are coasting in; nothing more, nothing less.

Crankster

Something you may not know about me:
You may be anti-Lance, but because I am quick to point out your bias doesn't make me pro-LA. I respect his talent and think he is an amazing athlete - something I am sure you guys will disagree with. But I am a cycling fan first. I enjoy cycling, all of the cycling and will continue to enjoy it regardless of who the winner of the next TdF is - Basso, Ullrich, Valverde, Popovych. It was great to see Vino win on the last day. It was also amazing to see Lance win his 7th.

As I mentioned before, I am not an american, so don't try to pin your silly stereotypes on me. Not everyone who disagrees with your limited biased and narrow-minded opinions means they must be american flag-waving Lance-wannabe. I am just a cycling fan who hates the hypocricy and the constant use of personal attacks by self-appointed board kings here.

As to DNA - I have seriously no idea what the hell you are talking about!!! But seeing how you just spelled "new" instead of "knew", I guess it makes a bit more sense to me, are you an active member of said organization?

thebluetrain

HaHaHaHa. LOL.

thebluetrain

I can hear it now. His K doesnt work on his keyboard.

fatboy61

You hit the nail on the head. "Mildly annoying". Just as there is always one guy in the bunch who makes a point of passing comment on every tiny infraction and breach of etiquette, often oblivious to his own. They are the reason so many newbies quit the sport and why many mountain-bikers think we are a bunch of repressed tight-asses.
I don't know what Evans was thinking.... half a wheel behind=same time, half a wheel in front=same time. I can only observe that, after being injured and being dicked about by T-Mobile etc, the guy just seemed to be racing on pure emotion and the sheer joy of being at Le Tour for the first time. Cut the lad some slack.
BTW I am not a Lance-basher; I am glad he got 7 in a row. Records are there to be broken, I have read his book etc etc.
Vino, Basso, Evans et al... July 06 can't come quick enough.

mitosis

Well if that annoys you then its your problem, not the problem of the guy, who through enthusiasm, sprints past you.

I've had it happen to me and seen it many times. Its amusing but its not a problem.

On another point, the Evans group were not coasting in.

mitosis

It was a simple joke. Knot intended to inflame. Knot pointed at you, or anyone else (Lance, people from the US, Disco riders etc).

You really have Know sense of humour do you.

Sorry for trying.

spacefuzz

why are you attacking me when all i did was point out a probable reason for lance's comment, the subject of this discussion.

mitosis

I wasn't going to respond to your latest round of accusations because I wasn't sure I would get through to you. But I am willing to try again (I don't give up easily).

I don't hate Lance. I don't hate the US. If that's the impression you have its not one which I wish to convey.

I can't stand fools. That's an impression I am trying to convey.

I admire LA's athleticism but am objective enough to admire the athleticism of other athletes. He is a standout as the best rider on the Tour in recent times.

I will accept that you are not a one-eyed LA fan but your posts certainly read like you are.

I, like you, am a cycling fan. I wouldn't be on this forum unless I was. I wouldn't ride and race up to 15000 k's a year if I wasn't.

Unlike you, I am willing to admit when I am wrong and give praise when it is due, and as you will have noticed, it does include Armstrong.

In my last few posts I have not resorted to name-calling as you continue to (hypocrite, silly, biased, narrow minded). If I were a nasty person I would suggest you look in the mirror. But I'm not.

My last few posts were not designed to cause you more stress they were an effort to make you lighten up. I have failed. Sorry. I'm not sure what it takes.

It was indeed great to see Lance win his 7th, his run of wins may never be bettered. It was also great to see the potential for next years T de F. There is a lot of exciting racing to be seen in the meantime.

mitosis

I'm not attacking you. Geez talk about touchy.