Page 10 - Armstrong used EPO in 99?

27-08.-2005, 03:17 AM	#136
3_days Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 158	Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99? The reality of cycling being what it is ... Simeoni acts like a tool ... It's hard to like a guy who points at the whole peloton and says, "I'm the only clean rider here!!!"

27-08.-2005, 04:05 AM

#137

VeloFlash

Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2003

Posts: 696

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

Quote:

Originally Posted by House

Velo- your rebuttal skills have gone downhill fast, you are approaching Flyer level. It's pretty sad that you've fallen to crap like that considering how enjoyable it was to debate you in the past. Now you are down to contradicting yourself, ignoring accusations you made that were refuted and playing dumb. I guess my role in this discussion is over having obviously driven you to the bottom of the barrel. I guess we'll chat in the next thread.

After witnessing many posts by many debaters critical on your generally inane posts in response, this comment is a bit rich coming from you.

Would you like me to list the posters?

But back to LA, particularly on the Larry King TV interview which the US audience, as evidenced on other forums, are swooning over his performance.

Tell me, House or anyone, what is the LA deliberate omission in this report of part of his interview that is designed to mislead the cycling naive interviewers and audience?

Armstrong also questioned the science behind years-old samples. He said he had provided a total of 17 "B" samples in 1999.

"So why are six of them positive and the other 11 aren't? I'm saying there were 17 samples. So, if the drug would stay around for two, three, four weeks, we have 17 samples given, and only six of them positive. What happened to the other 11?"

__________________
VF

"Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat"

27-08.-2005, 04:10 AM

#138

VeloFlash

Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2003

Posts: 696

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsm26

I have a suggestion for everyone on the side of L'Equipe. Please don't write in almost every post something attacking the entire American public, and saying things like "American sheep" and that we are all stupid. It doesn't help your case that Europeans on message boards are often just out to attack Americans any time they can. "When in doubt discount their comments because they are an American" The funny thing is that I am leaning toward the report being true and have been since the beginning. I have no loyalty to Lance, and never enjoyed his personality. It is an insult to someone like me who lived in Ukraine for several years, and has a German grandmother, and family who knows many European languages to have the same people attack us. Let me tell you from first hand knowledge that Europe and America are both full of idiots, neither has a monopoly. Stop the generalizing or the poster just comes off as being bitter, "intellectual", envious jerks.

You can only attack 97.85% of the US public.

My authority is here:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/libra...tion_cleese.htm

Edit: Sorry I forgot my

. Americans (97.85%?) are known to have problems with humour other than their own.

__________________
VF

"Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat"

Last edited by VeloFlash : 27-08.-2005 at 04:48 AM.

27-08.-2005, 04:22 AM

#139

VeloFlash

Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2003

Posts: 696

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sub55

tell ya'what ... we've all stated our positions, argued back and forth and doesn't seem as if any of us are going to surrender, so lets wait and see how this all unfolds and maybe when the dust all settles we'll see if any of knew what the heck we were talking about.

Unless of course you want to say "sorry" now in which case I humbly accept your apology.

Do you alone know something that is incontrovertible that throws a different light on this whole affair and deserves an apology from the unbelievers?

__________________
VF

"Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat"

27-08.-2005, 04:37 AM

#140

HammerHead

Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2003

Location: CA

Posts: 111

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloFlash

You can only attack 97.85% of the US public.

My authority is here:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/libra...tion_cleese.htm

I think you've officially lost it. Welcome back Flyer.

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I'm only truly happy when I'm anaerobic.

27-08.-2005, 04:41 AM

#141

tsm26

Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 2

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

Boy, you got me. That just proves how stupid we all are. I guess I will just bow down to European superiority. That letter set me straight

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloFlash

You can only attack 97.85% of the US public.

My authority is here:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/libra...tion_cleese.htm

27-08.-2005, 10:10 AM

#142

MJtje

Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 1,125

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

HUH, are you serious as IF we attack the american posters around here saying there stupid........

It's more the American posters that are making this a European (note french) versus American thing......(LA helps with that BS saying BS like I have a long history witht the french.......MEDIA that is!!!!!!!!)

Youre right: stop the generalizing!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsm26

27-08.-2005, 10:29 AM

#143

Ullefan

Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 683

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJtje

HUH, are you serious as IF we attack the american posters around here saying there stupid........

Forget it MJtje, it's futile, just google the news articles on LA, you'll find so many that are saying that its a american versus europe thing.

27-08.-2005, 10:29 AM

#144

blobloblo

Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 15

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

Just to get some things straight:
The lab's orginal intent was to refine a testing method for EPO. In partnership with the AMA, they have tested samples of 1998 and 1999. In 1998 they found 40 positive samples, in 1999 12. They didn't use 2000 samples: they can't access them because of a doping investigation. They don't use those of 2001 onwards because by then EPO detecting methods had been put in place and riders knew how not to get caught.
They used "B" samples because the "A" samples had already been used in 1999. Tests, like all doping tests, are anonymous. The lab didn't know who they were testing. The AMA asked them to make the tests, to know more about how riders take dope.
L'Equipe managed to get the official proceedings from the 1999 tests. There are numbers on them and on the samples that are used to identify riders.

This is taken from the newspaper "LeMonde". (yes it's french, but it has nothing to do with l'Equipe and isn't very anti-american).

Quote:

Originally Posted by huhenio

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

To try a new EPO testing technique .... who in his right mind would use a 7 year old sample? - NPR -

If you are just "testing" a new lab method , there are plenty perfecly non controversial EPO positives - like medicated patients under EPO - to perform the new test with.

If the spamles are unstable and the EPO protein breaks down .... what in heaven's name prevents the "unbiased" scientists to get fresh samples that would yield absolute positive and absolutely negative?

They where "just testing" after all. Dont come here and tell me that there is a world shortage of samples.

How convenient that the key for matching samples with the cyclists "leaked" - pun intended - to the world to know the sample owner.

This is crooked from the beggining.

And lastly ... If there such obvious slack on security - the key ppl, the key - and the names leaked ... what prevents "unkown" hands to get a hold on the samples - or results for all that matters - and contaminate them?

For me ... it is all so crooked that make me want to pee all over the place.

If Armstrong cheated is only for him to know at this point.

I hope that this crappy fanzine sold enough copies to cover the expenses for the libel lawsuits to come.

27-08.-2005, 10:31 AM

#145

blobloblo

Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 15

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJtje

HUH, are you serious as IF we attack the american posters around here saying there stupid........

Soo right, there's truly a lot of anti-french and anti-american feelings mixed with all this.

27-08.-2005, 10:53 AM

#146

3_days

Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 158

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloFlash

You can only attack 97.85% of the US public.

My authority is here:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/libra...tion_cleese.htm

Edit: Sorry I forgot my

. Americans (97.85%?) are known to have problems with humour other than their own.

I actually laughed out loud at this one - I agree with all of it except the beer ... seriously, that stuff you guys drink is gnarly mucus and piss combined with grain alcohol.

And, for the 2.15%, There's more evidence to show Bush fixed the election than WADA will ever get on Lance ...

27-08.-2005, 01:55 PM

#147

VeloFlash

Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2003

Posts: 696

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

House snorted about references to statements contrary to the Canadian scientist, Ayotte:

Quote:

If you have seen many, then please share them with us, don't just quote one. This is a doping forum, a place to provide as much info as possible to help people know about and make decisions about doping. Don't hold out or you will start sounding like Flyer.

Michael Ashenden, who helped develop the EPO blood test, said:

Ashenden also said samples that were properly frozen would yield accurate test results even after six or seven years.

http://www.boston.com/sports/other_...ubt_lab/?page=2

Schanzer, a well known German doping specialist, said (translated):

"During my researches I have found how stable epo is. When urine is stored between minus 20 and minus 40 degrees, we have no problem in detecting epo also after two or three years. The French have more experience with the testing method and are assuming five years."

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,371112,00.html

__________________
VF

"Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat"

28-08.-2005, 11:27 AM	#148
House Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 860	Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99? Velo- sadly you have drifted into Flyer territory. Responding to posts without answering the comments and then when called out more then once, finally responding to one of the things (still ignoring the rest) adding snide remarks. Pretty sad. I have lost a lot of respect for you.

28-08.-2005, 11:50 AM

#149

VeloFlash

Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2003

Posts: 696

Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99?

Quote:

Originally Posted by House

Velo- sadly you have drifted into Flyer territory. Responding to posts without answering the comments and then when called out more then once, finally responding to one of the things (still ignoring the rest) adding snide remarks. Pretty sad. I have lost a lot of respect for you.

House, I can live with your criticisms. You are the most subjective debater on any Forum. Daily Pelotons have pigeon holed you.

I did ask you a specific question back at post #137. Why have you ignored? The only answer is not consistent with your bias and agenda?

They are starting to come out of the woodwork. CyclingNews today:

Ron Jongen, a former soigneur with the US Postal team until 2000, has expressed further allegations concerning the 1999 Tour de France, and possible doping practices within the American squad. Armstrong's masseur told Dutch newspaper Limburgs Dagblad that he was present when team director Johan Bruyneel made comments about the riders' hematocrit levels before the 1999 Tour de France prologue.

At the last team meeting before the race, the 42-year old Dutchman from Kerkrade recalled, "Bruyneel said: they're just under 50 [Jonathan Vaughters noted this too - ed.]. When he saw that I heard what he said, he put his finger on his lips immediately: I wasn't supposed to say anything about it." While Jongen said that he was still on good terms with Armstrong (having e-mail contact as recently as at the 2005 Tour de France), the former masseur also talked about "strange, very strange things that went on in France that summer."

Jongen also recalled that three Spanish doctors visited the team's hotels in a green station wagon. "It was the only car that wasn't branded US Postal," the former soigneur said. "All the team cars parked in front of the hotels, but this car always parked at the rear entrances. The strange thing was that these doctors always slept on another floor," Jongen added, also saying that these doctors followed the team also at the Vuelta, but that they used the main entrance then.

__________________
VF

"Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat"

28-08.-2005, 12:30 PM	#150
House Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 860	Re: Armstrong used EPO in 99? Perhaps if you wrote in English I might have understood the question better, but perhaps it was merely a mistake made on live TV? Nah, not in your world of avoiding, making declarations without proof, using insults to cover up. As I said I have lost respect for you. I will allow to go on with your little game without me, you're not worth it anymore.

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