Pedal Stroke

2LAP

You have answered your own question here Crowley!!!!!

In road racing you ride behind other riders because it IS more efficent (i.e. YOU USE LESS ENERGY WHEN DRAFTING FOR ANY GIVEN SPEED). In time trialing you use all that you can give and also choose an aerodynamic position and efficent cadence to make the most of 'all that you can give'.

We are not talking about choosing the most efficent cadence here, but choosing the most efficent pedaling technique at any given power output. If I were to ride at 500 watts using a very inefficent technique, I would not be able to maintain that effort as long as I could have using a more efficent technique!

In many cases in cycling the most beneficial or optimum technique for performance is likely to be the most efficent. Obviously, the most beneficial or optimum technique for reducing back pain may well be the least efficent, however this technique is likely to have negative effects on maximal performance in a person without back pain.

Oh, and remember just because back pain is reduced doesn't mean that it will result in performance increases for 'normal' riders. That will need different evidence.

Check out the definitions of 'economy' and 'efficency' in a biomex text book, I think you will find it interesting.

crowley

I never mentioned reducing back pain, what my
pedaling does is completely eliminate it, even the worst
cases.
As you and all others know of only one way to pedal,
research to date is not on finding the most efficient
pedaling technique but rather on finding the most
efficient way of using the same basic round pedaling
style.
As for combining arm resistance with leg power and
not moving the hand/arm, it is easily explained.
Imagine you are standing upright, hands by your sides,
the front half of your right shoe is resting on a slightly
raised pressure plate and your right hand is grasping
a fixed lever handle. As you apply pressure from the
right shoe to the plate, this pressure can be increased
even further by the continuous pulling of the arm without any visiable arm movement except for the
working of the muscles and this increased pressure
could continue even if that plate moved downwards.
This is because the lines of pulling force and downward
pressure force are parallel or to put it another way, in
opposite directions. This is one of the main differences
between the two completely different pedaling techniques and can be easily done by the vital change
in the method of tranferring or directing power from
shoe to pedal with that well known Anquetil toes down
technique.

As has been already stated, this is getting nowhere.
I have no more time to waste.

ric_stern/RST

If i'm not mistaken, more days are lost at work through back pain, than any other condition. Thus, if you (or maitre Jacque) had found a way to eliminate back pain completely, medics who deal with back pain would be biting your hand off to find and exploit your cure. You would be an exceedingly well off person.

Ric

__________________
http://www.cyclecoach.com

2LAP

Sorry, I should have quoted you correctly!!! At least reducing back pain is in the same direction as eliminating it!!! I am sure that anyone would be happy with a small reduction in back pain, eliminating back pain would be a miracle. As Ric suggests you are going to be a very rich man. You may even be able to help my gran out.



Do you remember the other tread where we talked about isometric contractions in the upper body that 'stablised' and provided a base for contactions in the lower body to work against? Remember that I said that this was normal when riders worked hard (like on a climb)? This is what you have described, normal cycling technique and not something new (perhaps I've been using the Anquetil technique for years allong with everyone else I've raced against).



Agreed and sorry for wasting your time; but this is a discussion forum after all.

crowley

You have got it wrong again, the back pain that I am
referring to is "on the bike only" back pain.
A rider starts a TT and soon after starting the back pain
begins and continues to increase in intensity until the
rider is forced to climb off for relief. This cycling related
lower back pain ceases as soon as the rider climbs off
his bike. It is caused by the continuous back strain
associated with round pedaling and is eliminated by
using Anquetil's style which gets rid of all back strain.
This type of back pain has forced many riders out of
the sport. The only advice they have always been given
is to try every possible adjustment of their equipment,
this can sometimes solve the less serious cases by
reducing the back strain but for the more serious cases
giving up the sport is a necessity because by continueing to suffer with the pain, they are causing
further injury to their lower back as the intensity of the
pain starts to increase earlier in the ride.

crowley

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2LAP
Sorry, I should have quoted you correctly!!! At least reducing back pain is in the same direction as eliminating it!!! I am sure that anyone would be happy with a small reduction in back pain, eliminating back pain would be a miracle. As Ric suggests you are going to be a very rich man. You may even be able to help my gran out.



Do you remember the other tread where we talked about isometric contractions in the upper body that 'stablised' and provided a base for contactions in the lower body to work against? Remember that I said that this was normal when riders worked hard (like on a climb)? This is what you have described, normal cycling technique and not something new (perhaps I've been using the Anquetil technique for years allong with everyone else I've raced against).





You are attempting to make greater use of arm power
but with the technique that you are using, you are also
putting your back under greater strain. If it is Anquetil's,
you should have little difficulty repeating it at high speed
or maximum speed when you get on flat roads.

Naughty_hitter

Sorry to interupt with my cycling naiveté--and i know i should look this up someplace else--but what exactly is Anquetil's style? Is it simple the toe-down method used at high paces, or is there something more to it?

__________________
wannabe roadie...

coolworx

C'mon Ric.. this is a friendly forum. Let him explain or blow smoke - as long as we all keep pedalling....

crowley

It is a powerful high geared special pedaling technique
that uses upper and lower body muscles and even
though you are generating all this power, it is done in
a very relaxed way with almost no visiable movement
of the body. Medically it also has advantages such as
back pain elimination and even with the higher gears
it reduces the workload and risk of injury to the knees.
If a young rider used it today, he would be world track
pursuit champion in addition to being invincible in road
time trials, that is for as long as other riders did not
know how to do it.
If you ever get the opportunity to see the video,
"THE MYSTERIOUS CYCLING CHAMPION", you will see
Anquetil in close up pedaling action using the technique
and it devotes a section to his pedaling style but admits
that how he did it is still a mystery. The amazing thing
about this style of pedaling is that the experts refuse
to believe that it ever existed simply because they
have'nt a clue as to how he did it and are not willing to
admit that fact.

ric_stern/RST

Noel,

The only way for someone to be world champion is to produce more power than the opposition (assuming similar skills, CdA, and environmental conditions). This is suitably proved by the fact that you're not world champion in any discipline (at least as far as i'm aware). Whilst, you might want to argue that Anquetil's special technique might be less fatiguing, it don't mean a thing if you ain't got the power.

As you are well aware, your costs have been offered by "pedalling experts" to test your theory and special technique. It would, thus, appear to be you depriving science rather than science not believing you. What are you frightened of? If the experts are not willing to admit that they don't know what they're talking about, why have they offered to test you?

Come on Noel, take Wayne and the others up on their very generous offer and prove how wrong we are.

Ric

__________________
http://www.cyclecoach.com

crowley

That's true, I am not world champion but for a very good reason, I am now aged 61. I was about 54 when
I solved the mystery of his style and have spent the
years since then perfecting it. This is a very powerful
technique and it would be very easy to push your
heart over its limit and I do not want to end as E. Burke
(R.I.P.) did. Of course if every rider had this technique,
it would be back to a level playing field so it is only the
victims of lower back pain that can get the real
benefit from this technique and it is on them that I
intend concentrating. I only began cycling at age 42 after giving up smoking.

Brizza

I'm still not sure what this proposed technique is, can Crowley please give us a description of how it is different.
When I need to accelerate I use the 'scrape the mud off your shoe' technique and see a quick benefit each time. It is probably because my technique is usually inefficent.
I'd like to experient with Crowley's technique.

Brian