Burn in Hell ACLU? ACLU hates fags?

Chance3290

http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/p.../603140326/1014

It seems that there's this fella in Topeka, Kansas named Fred Phelps and Fred says he's a minister. Now Fred's got more than a dozen kids, and they each have several kids. This brood travels throughout the US and they attend funerals. Most of the funerals are for service men and women who have died in Afghanistan or Iraq, but they also showed up at the funeral for Coretta Scott King.
These people hold up signs that say: "GOD HATES FAGS!" "SMELL THE BRIMSTONE" "THANK GOD FOR IEDS"
These people do this because they feel that GOD is punishing the US for supporting gay causes.
Several states have, in record time, written and passed laws that make these protests illegal in cemetaries and at funerals.
The aclu says they are against these new laws because in interferes with Fred's freedom of speech.
So, if I got this right, the aclu will protest to support gay rights. AND they will protest to support the people who want all the gays to die and burn in hell.
I know what someone will say; "The aclu doesn't support fred, they just support his right to say these things." Interesting philosophy.

__________________
Please, don't MOO at the cows. It only confuses them.

roadhog

I am not a big fan (or even small fan) of the ACLU in general and certainly not a fan of Fred and the sheer lunacy he has somehow invoked in his friends and family, but I find no contradiction in the ACLU's stance on this issue (at least as you've described - I've done no research on this on my own but am familiar with crazy-Fred's group). What you call an "interesting philosophy" seems to be exactly what the 1st amendment mandates. Nothing disturbing here to me except for Fred's ideas and his ability to convince others of the same.

edit: I should add that I *am* a fan of the recent laws that prohibit these crazies from disrupting funeral services.

wolfix

There were a group of Bikers.[Harley riding kind} that went to the funerals to ensure that Fred did not get too close to the family.

__________________
"I rule my world with a cellphone."

Chance3290

Yup, it was because of these bikers, and the Coretta Scott funeral, that these people started getting more attention.

I fully understand the freedom of speech issue. I support someone's right to protest the war, gay rights, abortion, ect (both pro and con). But to do so at a funeral or cemetary, and then have the aclu say that this should be allowed? And have them say that these new laws violate the rights of these people?

__________________
Please, don't MOO at the cows. It only confuses them.

roadhog

I heard about that too. Seems to be one of the most active biker movements in quite a while. Good for them.

roadhog

I do understand a little bit I guess. I mean even in my own opinions on this there is a contradiction of sorts. On the one hand, I completely understand that they (the crazies) have their free speech rights and I think they should keep them. Then on the other hand I completely support the laws that have just been put in place to stop them from disrupting services. So I do have a contradiction myself. So maybe I'm not so credible on this issue after all...

stevebaby

Many of the defenders of both the First and Second Amendments to the Constitution seem to insist on
absolute freedoms.Absolute freedom can only exist in a state of anarchy.Freedom is always relative.Every law is a restriction on freedom and all civilised societies accept this.No sane person,for example,could argue in favour of certain kinds of pornography being freely available.These nutcases can have the freedom to express their offensive opinions elsewhere.
The First Amendment has been used by every colour in the political spectrum to justify their right to self expression.Many of them are offensive to some people and some of them are offensive to many people.That's the price of civilisation.
Australia has nothing like the First Amendment and I don't believe that our freedom has suffered to any great degree as a result.In some respects we have more freedoms than the US,in others we have less.Every country is obviously different in what their citizens are prepared to trade off.
Disrupting a funeral is not self-expression.Perhaps the First Amendment needs further amendment.
Motor-cycle gangs are a poor substitute for an effective and sensible law.
Would any sane person allow motor-cycle gangs to be moral arbiters in any other area of social life?

__________________
I'm Rooting for Chiara!
Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!
bastard

ptlwp

I am a card carrying member of the ACLU. They do things above and beyond the call of duty, believe me.

__________________
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

Chance3290

Yesterday, I heard a politician say something I actually agree with. He said that the aclu has a tendency to fight common sense legislation.

The aclu also has a tendency to only fight for certain rights. When the police and national guard were taking guns away from the New Orleans citizens, who legally owned the guns and were using them to guard their homes, the aclu was nowhere to be seen.

Again, interesting philosophy.

__________________
Please, don't MOO at the cows. It only confuses them.

ptlwp

Maybe not a soul asked for their help. They don't go into anything unless specifically requested, to my knowledge.

And they would even help a poor high school kid, if need be....

__________________
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

ptlwp

as for common sense, one man's common sense is another man's tyranny, is it not?

__________________
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

Chance3290

They were asked, even by some NO police officers who didn't like having the government taking guns from lawful citizens. (After all, that is the true meaning of the second amendment).

Explain to me how you support civil rights AND support the people who condemn and denigrate the funeral of the civil rights leader?

I know..."We don't support them, just their right to say it." Then you support the likes of Hitler. After all, he didn't just wake up one morning as chancellor of Germany with a full army, and decide to kill several million people that he didn't like. He started by talking to people and spreading his message. In other words, he used free speech.

We recently argued about child molesters. Will the aclu support the free speech right of a suspected child molester if he wants to stand in front of a grammar school and hand out kiddy porn?

There is right and wrong. And if you don't know the difference between common sense and tyranny, then you don't have common sense.

__________________
Please, don't MOO at the cows. It only confuses them.

wolfix

Ok ...... You are a member which means you donated a sum of money to their agenda. You made a statement that they go beyond the call of duty. I would like to know what they have done beyond the call of duty? They are very well paid lawyers supported by very wealthy individuals. Doing what they are paid for is not going beyond the call of duty. And they take on situations without being asked. And when examined real close, most of the cases they take on have a cash reward at the end......
What do they do beyond the call of duty?

__________________
"I rule my world with a cellphone."

Hypnospin

i though as good capitalist citizens we would approve of personal gain being put before altruistic effort...


[QUOTE=wolfix]Ok ...... . And when examined real close, most of the cases they take on have a cash reward at the end......
QUOTE]

__________________
"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so must we think anew and act anew"
Abraham Lincoln, in his address to congress dec. 1st, 1861