Page 5 - Will Iran get the bomb?

28-03.-2006, 11:17 PM

#61

limerickman

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhuskey

It is the same almost everywhere,as in people want control, which comes from power,which is fueled my money.
Power to influence others,power of life and death.
Power is like a drug ,the more you get the more you want and some are born addicted and or molded into addicts.
One of true weak points of the human race.

Agreed : and it's the very same here in this country.

you couldn't put a coat a paint in the difference between the two main political parties - and the backgound and social class (for want of a better expression) of the tow main parties.
They're the same.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

29-03.-2006, 12:02 AM

#62

limerickman

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

Well. I asked you. I can see if you want to avoid it....Just like you and your countrymen have avoided cominh into the 20th and now 21sy centuries.

We (The US) did help the Iraqis (like we are now) fight Iran.

Let me think....What was Ireland doing in 1983. Oh yes. That's right you were busy killing each other. LMAO @ you yet again

So you do acknowledge that the USA supported Saddam Hussein.
Therefore the USA didn't stop Saddam from killing his fellow Iraqi's either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

How many more died at the hands of Saddamm and his henchmen? They are still digging them up.

Go ask Rumsfeld : he dealt with him.

29-03.-2006, 01:23 AM

#63

limerickman

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

Yes. I admit we helped Saddamm fight Iran. I'm just happy you are finally admiting that Saddamm gassed the Kurds and killed his own people (your words). Maybe Saddamm wasn't such a good guy after all.

I would love to ask Rummy. He's one of my heros. The way he answers the liberal press's questions cracks me up.

IT MUST SUCK TO NOT BE ON BUSH/BLAIR'S SIDE

Because I can tell you it feels really good to be were I'm at.

So America invaded Iraq because Saddam was gassed the kurds.
Saddam gassed the kurds in 1988.

The USA invaded Iraq in March 2003.
15 year time difference.

So it's a lie to suggest that the USA invaded Iraq because of the kurds.

America invaded Iraq for oil. And no other reason.

29-03.-2006, 03:18 AM

#64

Carrera

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

Donald Rumsfeld is what you might call a pretty poor military tactician. I have no doubt there are some Americans who did support the war against Iraq but I do think many of these people feel disappointed by the outcome.
To clarify my point, it was apparently Rumsfeld who was behind the whole rendition and use of torture in Iraq and that was a huge mistake. It gave rise to a huge insurgency and it damaged the reputation of the U.S. around the globe.
Above all and this is a major point, it endangered the lives of those Americans who were sent to fight in Iraq without decent protection in many cases.
Not too long ago I saw a very attractive young lady on T.V. who had been out fighting in Iraq and had lost her legs in combat. This girl was so courageous as well and had opted to help other injured troops get used to artificial limbs. However, I felt sorry for that girl I have to confess - the fact she will never be able to ride a bike and is paying the price for abuse of ethics and lack of professionalism amongst the top brass in the military.
The question is was this war worth fighting? Was S.H. really such a threat that these soldiers should face a life without limbs in many cases or bear psychological scars for many years.
Well, if they had found a nuclear missile in Iraq, fine. But they really found nothing at all so people in the U.S. now have a right to ask questions as to what motives lay behind this invasion.
As for Blair, where was he in this war he supported? Living it up at E.U. banquets I imagine and lecturing us all about human rights. Did he send his sons to fight in Iraq and did Bush send his daughters, I ask?

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

Because I can tell you it feels really good to be were I'm at.

29-03.-2006, 03:26 AM

#65

Carrera

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

The latest report I heard was that they tried at all costs to provoke a war with SH by trying to get him to shoot at a U.N. spy-plane.
The truth is Bush wanted war and he got a war. He reckoned democracy would have become established in Iraq after a simple military intervention but life is never so simple. If you ask me, Bush regrets gotting involved in the current fiasco and he even seened to admit it in his state of union speech. I recall him talking about an end to dependency on oil and American addiction to oil. I took that as implying he may cut his losses and pull out.
I don't know whether Bush really is as bad as they make him out to be in Europe or not. Maybe he was talked into war by the neo-cons and I have an impression Bush now wants out of the whole mess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

Do you use oil?

My president has said recently that he will not allow a terrorist regime to control all that oil and therefore all that money. Because they will do harm with it.

So I don't think he is hidding anything. He admits this.

Let me ask you something. Do you think the US would like our own source of oil. Not relying on an Arab country for it?

I know your thinking...YES!

Not true we NEED the Arab countries to supply us with oil. Why else would they be allies if we were not buying their oil.

So to say we invaded Iraq for oil is naive.

We invaded Iraq for a host of reasons and you know it.

You are obviously pretty smart. Smart enough to know your remarks are not based in fact but hate and envy.

29-03.-2006, 03:37 AM

#66

Carrera

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

Blair is supposed to lead a working-class party that respects the working man, trade-unions and free values. I see him doing none of those things. What I do see is an eighty year old Jewish hollocaust survivor being manhandled and forcefully ejected from parliament for heckling Jack Straws speech in support of the Iraq war. Then the old man concerned is charged under the terrorism act?

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

They voted for him because he's a strong leader in a time of war. The same reason Bush was re-elected.

29-03.-2006, 04:11 AM

#67

Carrera

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

That's fairly simple to answer. If it was a situation whereby a terrorist had to be put out of action in order to save lives of innocent people, I don't believe in pulling any punches.
But in a military situation, I totally disagree with POW abuses or torture. I think it's unprofessional conduct and it endangers the lives of other troops on your own side.
Maybe you're aware the whole purpose of terrorism is to provoke western powers to degrading themselves and openly showing themselves to be no better than the tin-pot regimes they claim need democracy and freedom? Either we are civilized and respectful of ethics in the western world or we are no better than Saddam's torturers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

I'll say it again. If you think what the Americans did is torture you are either a liar or an idiot.

Answer the question: HOW WOULD YOU INTERROGATE A SUSPECTED TERRORIST? Explain. Please!! I'm dying to hear this one

29-03.-2006, 04:33 AM

#68

limerickman

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

My president has said recently that he will not allow a terrorist regime to control all that oil and therefore all that money. Because they will do harm with it.

Hold up here.

Bush invaded in Iraq because he falsely claimed Iraq had WMD.
You made the same false claim earlier.

When it was pointed out to you that Colon Powell admitted that he'd lied about WMD, you couldn't respond.

I was telling the likes of you at the time that your President lied when he talked about the reasons for invading Iraq.
Your country's the terrorist with regard to the Iraq war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

Do you use oil?

So I don't think he is hidding anything.

He's a liar - he lied about the reasons for going to war with Iraq.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

Not true we NEED the Arab countries to supply us with oil. Why else would they be allies if we were not buying their oil.

If they're allies - why did your president order the invasion of Iraq?
Iraq is an Arab country.

Your country needs oil. In fact your country is so dependent on oil that it lied
about Itraq to try to get it's hands on Iraqi oil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

So to say we invaded Iraq for oil is naive.

You already admitted that your country needs oil - Iraq happens to have the second greatest volume of known oil in the world.
I don't think that it's a coincidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

You are obviously pretty smart. Smart enough to know your remarks are not based in fact but hate and envy.

My comments are based on facts.

29-03.-2006, 04:36 AM

#69

limerickman

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

Take that up with the court that chargred, tried and CONVICTED and sentenced Graner and England.
Your country's courts ajudged them to have committed torture.

29-03.-2006, 06:16 AM

#70

Carrera

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

I'm afraid it was a lot worse than just rap music. Some of the POW's were unlawfully murdered and violently abused.
Of course, not all U.S. personnel conducted themselves illegally in Iraq and possibly the majority of U.S. marines wouldn't condone ill-treatment on that kind of scale.
The fault lies at the top, of course. The military was encouraged to carry out abuses and then thrown to the dogs when photos were published. Lindy England was probably not the brightest of sparks and was manipulated by those above her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

Well said.

I agree %100. However, barking dogs,nudity and playing rap music is not torture. Well..........maybe the rap music.LOL

29-03.-2006, 06:19 AM	#71
Carrera Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 4,816	Re: Will Iran get the bomb? I'm afraid it was a lot worse than just rap music. Some of the POW's were unlawfully murdered and violently abused. Of course, not all U.S. personnel conducted themselves illegally in Iraq and possibly the majority of U.S. marines wouldn't condone ill-treatment on that kind of scale. The fault lies at the top, of course. The military was encouraged to carry out abuses and then thrown to the dogs when photos were published. Lindy England was probably not the brightest of sparks and was manipulated by those above her.

29-03.-2006, 06:41 AM	#72
Carrera Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 4,816	Re: Will Iran get the bomb? "Lynndie England never had a chance. Abu Ghraib, or maybe something even worse (an RPG up the shorts, for instance) was always her destiny. Nearly half of the 800 Americans killed in Iraq to date came from small towns like hers, like mine. Forty-six percent of the American dead in Iraq came from towns of less than 40,000. Yet these towns make up only 25% of our population. Most of the young soldiers were fleeing economically depressed places, or dead end jobs like Lynndie had at the chicken processing plant. These so-called volunteers are part of this nation's de facto draft---economic conscription. Money is always the best whip to use on the laboring clasess. Thirteen hundred a month, a signing bonus and free room and board sure beats the hell out of yanking guts through a chicken's ass."

29-03.-2006, 08:26 AM

#73

limerickman

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

She was a scapegoat my friend. She did nothing wrong.

.....except commit torture for which she was charged, tried, convicted and
imprisoned.

.

29-03.-2006, 11:57 AM

#74

James Bruce Gil

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

.....except commit torture for which she was charged, tried, convicted and
imprisoned.

.

Limerick,

Not wishing to confess to anything, but the first casualty of war is always the truth and second casualty is necessarily the moral standard of those in the firing line.

Power corrupts us all and particularly so when our own life is at stake; Under conditions of war we will do what ever is necessary to maintain our dominant position.

If survival or death depends on maintaining that dominance, sadly we will stoop to dreadful depths and perform acts that we would not even consider in normal circumstances. Dominance is everything to military officers, even in relation to their own troups.

I don't know the tragic circumstances of this ugly incident, but I doubt that this woman would have done it completely of her own volition.

I think it highly likely that she would have been driven to it by both the war circumstance and orders of a superior. Wilfully disobeying an order in conditions or war is generally seen as abandoning duty and is not viewed kindly by any army other than perhaps the Salvation Army.

As for Iran acquiring the bomb; I would say it is inevitable.

Kind regards,

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29-03.-2006, 01:24 PM

#75

James Bruce Gil

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Re: Will Iran get the bomb?

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_RAT

Scapegoat.....................=One that is made to bear the blame of others.

From your other posts I thought that's the way you and other described her.

Persons above hear new what was going on. Right??

Then she is a scapegoat

dR,

Don't misconstrue what I said. There is no doubt that torture is wrong. War is wrong, but they occur regularly and probably always will while there are even the most minute differences in human thought, belief and phillosophy.

What I was saying is that this young woman had Hobson's choice; Be dealt with by the military for willful disobediance or follow an order regardless of whether she agreed with it or not. This is the lot of the lower ranks.

Having been in war situations, I know that it beggars belief to think that a low ranking soldier orchestrated the whole event. Though, in retrospect, it seems by the punishment, she was largely found as being responsible for it.

Had she been of a family of social standing within the army officer ranks, she would have been found to have been following orders and somebody else of similar rank would have been fingered to carrythe ignominy of it.

I reckon that the same could be said of that part-time officer who was in supposedly charge of the prison. Had she been a male regular career officer, she would have been found to not have been implicated in any way.

The military officer sleaze looks after its own. The saying that you can militarize a civillian but you can not civilize a military person, is certainly true of most career officers that I have crossed.

Kind regards,

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