Global warming

limerickman

So you believe that there is no global warming?
You believe that the ice caps aren't melting?
And do you disagree with the view that natural environs like the Barrier Reef, are not being destroyed through climate change?
And what is your view on the Stern Report?

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Piotr

*I'm not 100% convinced (a prerequisite in science) that climate changes are man made.
*I don't give a squat about Barrier Reef any more than the tip of Mount St. Helen's, or the yet unknown species appearing or disappearing (see point above).
*I don't believe that Kyoto protocol will do squat, except wreak havoc on worlds economies as it is a purely an econo-political stunt.

+I know that the rainforests are disappearing because of poverty, not emissions.
+I know that 99% "scientific concensus" doesn't equal a scientific fact.
+I know that I'm not alone in my beliefs.
+I believe our intervention will do more harm than good, because we're really not that smart.
+I believe that millions have died of malaria because of the DDT ban (see point above).
+I believe that the world is now a better place to live than ever in human history.
+I believe that we should strive to make it an even better place to live.
+I believe Mr. Stern, just like you, me and others are entitled to their opinion:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009182

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Billsworld

No, it warms and cools. Its just not all because of human behavior and (Americans) and cars as Al Gore has led you to believe. Maybe you ought to look at the near 2 billion people in China and India and the recent industrialization of China as well as the 3rd world methods of cooking etc.. before you buy into Dr. Gores BS. theories on global warming . Oh BTW check the "qualifications" of his braintrust that he used for his data. That movie that you so love is a load of leftie horseshit. No wonder you liked it so much. Opps sorry moderator I meant horse poopie

Bro Deal

You have your work cut out for you, Lim. Piotr lives in one of the few (maybe only) states in the U.S. where the population still believes Iraq had WMD and was in league with Al Quaida. If the Mormon church leaders tell them the earth is flat then the earth is flat. Period.

In March 2003 I ate lunch in Utah with a group of people. This was days before the invasion of Iraq and it was obvious it was going to happen. When conversation got around to the upcoming war and I said I did not support it, one of the people exclaimed, "Wow! You're the only person I know who doesn't support attacking Iraq." Yeah, not exactly a lot of critical thinking going on in the great state of Utah.

Making his opinion of global warming even funnier is that Utah shows the signs of global warming. Snow barely sticks on the ground in the valleys anymore except for short spans of days after a storm. Winter is barely two months long, with a few storms outside that two months and warm periods within the two months. You can cycle through most of Dec. and start back up in early Feb.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Bro Deal

Uh-huh. It's all a conspiracy by the damned libs. Those bastards.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Piotr

I'm not Mormon, among many other things you implied about me solely based on my state of residence. I suppose prejudice is considered a progressive way of thinking where you come from. Using Utah winter as an example of global warming is as cogent as using Norwegian summer as an example of global cooling. Thanks for the wonderful example of critical thinking.

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Bro Deal

I have no problem with being prejudiced against right wing fools who try to deny reality. Tolerating propagandists and the useful idiots taken in by them has led to enough cock ups in the last few years.

So you don't think that the fact that the winter conditions in the Rocky Mountains have noticably changed mean anything? You don't need a slide rule and a computer simulation to see that places are warming up. You can experience it yourself. Go to Alaska sometime.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Piotr

You're talking about Al Gore of course?

Re-read my posts - I didn't deny the existence of global warming trends. I implied that I didn't care because I don't have the blind belief that global warming is man-made. I do know that since your infamous visit to Utah we've had some record-breaking snow falls in the Wasatch mountains (http://www.visitsaltlake.com/media/record_snowfall.html).

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Bro Deal

Yeah. Who cares about things like the Great Barrier Reef? We don't need that anyway. Species going extinct. Fuck them, too. How many pictures of Dick Cheney do you have on your walls?


How much stuck on the valley floor? I figure that if current trends continue, in twenty years you will be able to cycle the Wasatch Front year around, minus a few days around the odd winter storm. Do you deny the winters in the Rocky Mountains are much milder than they were twenty years ago?

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

limerickman

Where in this thread have I mentioned Al Gore, Americans and cars?
Where did I say that I believe Al Gore?



Where did I say that I agree/disagreed with Al Gore?




Again, where did I mention Al Gore in this thread?




Where did I refer to "that movie" ?
I haven't seen any movie?



I referred to Paris Conference on Climate change in 2007 - which endorsed the 2000 conference on climate change and the causes of climate change.

2,500 scientists at the 2007 conference stated that greenhouse gases and carbon emissions were responsible for climate change.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

ellno#1

There are none so blind as those who wish not to see, when it comes to the indisputable fact that global warming is with us and will affect our lives for the next century, if not more, it is useless to try and convince the likes of those with heads buried in sand. The Great Barrier Reef is already under attack by farm fertilizer runoff/phosphates. During the last big rainfall that swept through the area just over two weeks ago, tons of sediment has been washed onto the reef. At present scientists are monitoring the water around the reef for all manner of foreign material, the satelite photos of the reef have shown the magnitude of area affected. Add to this the fear that global warming is also destroying a natural wonder called the GREAT BARRIER REEF, it begs the question what sort of human being would say they care not for this natural wonder. Obviously Limerickman we are dealing with a degenerate of such proportions that any sane argument is totally lost, as I said at the beginning, none so blind as those who wish not to see. Unfortunately there are a lot of these around our world, this is why there is so much trouble associated with our race/species. The USA Administration loves this kind of thinking person, it makes it right to be in IRAQ.

limerickman

Even though mean temperatures worldwide have become more extreme throughout the latter half of the 20th century, it is beyond belief that there are still some who deny the fact that temperatures are actually changing.

Then there are those who do accept that temperatures are changing - but do not accept that the case of these changes is the emission of carbon/greenhouse gases.
When asked to explain why termperatures have changed - they say "oh the weather changing.........".
Nor can they offer anything to explain why the climate is changing.
Surreal.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Bro Deal

I think the key here is what action needs to be taken, and neither side has acted very rationally. The greens only solution seems to be to stop the growth of energy use, which is never going to happen because economic growth in a modern economy is intrinsicly tied to energy use. I would like to see some of these groups stand up and support nuclear power. The U.S. neocon types are willing to risk long term economic disruption to protect next quarter's corporate earnings. It's like watching Dubya insist of staying the course even as the car heads toward a cliff. Sure the next few moments might be smooth driving, but that last step is a doozy.

Even apart from global warming, some of the policies in the U.S. are madness. Cities like Phoenix are being built out completely dependent on cheap gasoline. That city is extremely spread out. It's over a 110 degrees in the summer, it is a place that could not exist without dirt cheap fuel, and its population is soaring. It's crazy. When gasoline goes to $10 a gallon, the place will be a ghost town. It seems like an abdication of what one of the roles of government should be.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

ndbiker

Perhaps it could be increased solar activity. Studies show temperatures on Mars are also increases. I doubt a couple of Rovers are causing green house gases. Or perhaps we are in a cyclical warming period. Scientists have shown that they occur as well. Perhaps its a result of the urban heating effect. Concrete and asphalt reflect a great deal more heat which is why most cities are up to several degrees warmer than their surrounding areas. The one thing that noone who supports the idea of a global catastrophe due to global warming has suggested is how they wish to stop it. What energy source do we switch to to reduce emissions. Do we send our global economies back to the medieval times and we can all be like the third world countries. It is easy to complain about a perceived problem and hope someone else will do something but how many are willing to give up their cars, their jobs, their central heat in order to accomplish a goal which some scientists say might occur. They said we'd all be in flying cars by now too. I'm still on terra firma.