What would you say about Bush?

Billsworld

Wurm used a great quote from Jefferson. The problem is that I feel unprotected from the govt. The level of taxation borders on theft and goes well past contributing to society. I had hoped with the repubs in controll we would see fiscal responsability. Instead we got the opposite. I am left with the question unanswered. What type of tax system do you lefties see as fair.(in a general sense) Should there be limits and lower expectations on social services. Should illegals be able to continue to get free health care.

Thaibiker

the u.s. has the lowest tax rate in the western world. besides, somebody has to pay for the "strong military" you say you support. aircraft carriers and stealth bombers aren't free, man. also, someone has to pay to keep all those men, women and tanks in a distant country. as a businessman yourself, you should know there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Thaibiker

I feel unprotected from the government too: i feel the government is trying to force religion down my throat, tap my phone calls, read my email, peek in my bedroom window, eliminate my right to protest its actions and, eventually, send my son off to fight and die in a ridiculous war.

But all the (rich) conservatives can do is piss and moan like freakin' toddlers about their tax bill! Grow up! Any of you heard of Nero?

Quote Jefferson all you like, but one thing is sure: he'd wretch on Monticello's front lawn if he could see the crowd in the White House now.

davidmc

Not arguing w/ you but having factory's closer to markets & having lower overhead costs (wages & no need to pay into health insurance, ect...) are motivating factors, as well, for int'l expansion. Are you sure American productivity is below that of nations you are referencing

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

davidmc

I am in agreement. Hear about the administrations latest $400 Billion "supplemental" budget resolution for Afghanistan/Iraq & hurricanes These, so-called conservatives are spending us (U.S.) into the poor-house

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

lyotard

notable these drunken sailor on shore leave spending sprees, courtesy the party of "conservatism", not to mention anti big gov't, looks once again the repubs are indeed the manifestation of what so many thought they voted against, and still hold the dems to be!

__________________
"i think it would be a good idea"

-mahatma gandhi, upon being posed the question
"what do you think of western civilization?"

limerickman

I can speak for two US multinationals who have stated that their productivity levels Stateside was lower than the majority of their international operations.

A mitigating factor could be that the technology at their new international sites could be more advanced than at their sites in the USA.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

limerickman

And that's the problem Dave.

At some point in the future all of this money has to be recouped.
Who will end up paying it? Your kids? Your grandkids?

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

limerickman

I think that all that most people want is a fair days pay, for a fair days work.

If you work for someone, you should get paid.
If you take a risk and go out on your own, you should be rewarded for taking that risk.
I don't think that anyone here has any difficulty with this.

You've managed to set up your own business and have done well : fair dues to you, I say.


Free healthcare for people who can't afford it - is a progressive notion.
People can argue the why's and wherefor's - but I subscribe to the notion that people who cannot, legitimately afford healthcare ought to receive free healthcare.
Society is meant to be progressive : a society which looks after the vulnerable is a progressive society in my book.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Wurm

No, no, we can't have that. Are the workhouses all full? And if they get sick or injured, let them die. It's their fault they haven't pulled themselves up, and not in our interests to waste profits on the Great Unwashed.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a business to tend to...

__________________
"Bush is the first President to admit to an impeachable offense."

- John Dean, former Counsel to the President (Nixon)

The aim of big corporations is to separate fools from their money all of the time and ordinary folks from their money most of the time. The rest of us must fend for ourselves.

Felt_Rider

This is a reasonable post IMO and a good selection of wording.

FEMA abuse

There are those who do legitamately have a reason for support, but there are a great percentage that have been living off the government handouts and are abusive of the money given. Case in point on the link. I have no problem helping those who are down on their luck, but there are multitudes that are content on being in the low tax bracket, watching TV all day and waiting for the welfare check to show up in the mailbox. For those types I struggle giving my hard earned, long hours worked money to a government that is willing to take away from me and give it to someone content to sitting on the street corner or porch all day. This is personal business that I don't want to reveal too much here, but I do freely contribute to worthy causes and world catastrophes that happen to good people without taxation. So I am in favor of helping those who need help.

Thaibiker

See, now you're getting it!

I mean, look at the example GWB has presented:

From humble beginnings, he pulled himself up from his bootstraps, by golly. From nothin' (just an average Joe), here's a local Texas (or was it Maine?) boy whose exemplary grades got him a ticket to the Ivy League. Who woulda thunk it? "Work hard, study hard and anything is possible," he used to say. And after college, he scraped together his first million and got himself on the board of an oil company. And when that went bust, he scraped together another few million and bought himself another oil company. Then - a complete unknown - he runs for public office, and not just *any* public office (the wunderkind, of course, had held not even the office of local dog catcher before this, mind you), he lands the freakin' governship of one of the most powerful states in the union! And now, president? Why, it's nothing short of the American Freakin' Dream, folks!

So, when George Bush talks about the "land of opportunity" and "pulling up them bootstraps" - I, for one, know he speaks from experience!

limerickman

With respect, I don't know if there are people lounging around all day watching TV, receiving handouts.
I suspect that there may be people doing that - but in quantative terms how many people are doing this ?

That's the problem - politicians tend to make generalised comments about people doing this and people doing that.
They make these comments to suit their ideology.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Felt_Rider

There are a lot of people doing this in America.
There are a lot of people that have dug themselves out of poverty and the ghetto and have progressed with education such as my family. I have seen first hand the abuse and the unwillingness to put forth the effort to go forward.

I think there are a lot of people are truely and sadly impoverished that are in great need in 3rd world countries.