Upgrades to entry level MTBs and Comfort Bikes

anthonyg

OK I have to ask, why have you pushed the seat so far forward?

I mean it looks like a nice setup paticuarly since I read that you fitted 150 mm cranks but that seat looks too far forward to me. Is the seat that far forward to acheive KOPS or did you just think that it would be better that far forward?

I have a paticular interest in fit for short people being 5' 1" myself and I have a custom 650c road bike with 140 mm cranks, a VERY short reach(horizontal distance from Bottom Bracket to centre of head tube), much shorter than your Giant and I have a whopping 70 mm of saddle setback. This puts the weight on my rear end and not my arms/shoulders and it is SOO much better than a small factory bike.

See one of the issues I have with factory XS bikes is that they fudge things with steep seat tube angles inorder to compensate for the comprimises they are making with such bikes and the BIG trouble with this is that the rider is placed too far forward with too much weigh on their hands/shoulders which makes these bikes VERY uncomfortable. I realise you are trying your best but I feel you have made things worse by pushing the seat so far forward and it would be MUCH more comfortable to move the seat back and fit a shorter stem to compensate.

Here's a good article relevent to the topic from Sheldon Brown, http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-sizing.html

Regards, Anthony

gclark8

The seat is forward and I fitted a longer adjustable stem, 100mm, to keep some weight over the front wheel and enable Jackie to be in the middle of the bike, the XS frame is really a size too big. She had a 24" Apollo Panther boys bike for 6 months, that fitted a little better but was too difficult for her to lift on and off the car.

Bike fit, KOPS is ignored here in place of comfort as it is only used for short rides. Jackie is used to riding at a high cadence so a forward, almost "Tri-position", is OK for her. Her Felt F100-650c road bike has a 76 degree seatpost, this bike is used for longer rides.

Next time I see her with the bike I will try to take a Photo of her riding the bike.

__________________
Cheers,
George.

anthonyg

George,

If you look at an average male road rider then more of their weight is over the rear wheel than the front and this is normal. Deliberately trying to put more weight on the front wheel isn't required and it doesn't help handling at ALL. Honestly handling improves with more weight on the rear wheel and having too much weight on the front wheel is a big problem for small riders.

Regarding KOPS (knee over pedal spindle), this is about comfort just as much as performance. Sitting back at KOPS is far more comfortable than being infront of KOPS which places too much weight on your hands/shoulders. Time Trialists sit infront of KOPS because when they're in a low aerodynamic tuck moving forward helps to open up their hip angles and stops them from having their knees touch their stomachs at the top of each upstroke. It's good for short hard efforts in an aerodynamic tuck but they NEED to support their weight on their lower arms with TT bars. Standard road/flatbars just put TOO much weight on their hands/wrists.

Anyway I strongly reccomend that you move her riding position rearwards. Its way too far forward.

Regards, Anthony

anthonyg

OK something I've forgoten to mention. Another reason that bike manufacturers place small riders so far forward is that sitting forward helps open the hip angles for riders who are using cranks that are too long for them. You mentioned that you've fitted 150 mm cranks to this bike so its no longer an issue that say using 165-170 mm cranks would be. Deffinitely try placing her back at KOPS.

EDIT: (Again) Also my beater/commuter bike is a cheap 24" Mtn bike. I don't fit on 26" Mtn or 700c road bikes myself. I might build a very custom tourer with 26" wheels in the future but it will be MUCH shorter than anything you can currently buy from a bike manufacturer with 26" wheels.

Regards, Anthony

Little Jackie

Anthony

Whilst I have read your posts with interest, I think that you would be better to open another topic regarding bike fit for smaller people than continue in this one which is focussing on upgrades to entry level MTBs.

Having said that I will endeavour to address some of your points remembering that I don't have all the technical knowledge. You need to bear in mind that I am 52, 5' and of slight build, and my requirements would therefore be very different from yours as you are clearly much younger.

My47cm Felt Road bike has drop bars and suits me perfectly. I have sufficient weight over the front wheek to give stability when climbing hills. I have elevated the bars slightly and fitted 100ml adjustable stem. This has given me a much more comfortable riding position as I was getting a very sore neck and shoulders before as I have had previous injuries.

I use my MTB for slow to moderate recreational riding on rough paths, but like the option to put it through its paces. With the XS Upland, we have simply replicated much of the comfortable geometry. It now rides much like a flat bar road bike (not available in my size in Australia), but is much more comfortable than my road bike. We are considering, however, kicking the seat slightly farther back and fitting a 90ml stem instead of the 100ml as I have chosen to have the handle bars lower. You must remember, Anthony, that the top tube length is still slightly too long for me and I do need the stability in the front end being of light weight. Prior to Giant releasing this model in XS there was no adult bike available in my size! (the effective size of an XS Sedona with suspension forks was 17")

I might add that all of these modifications are being run by our LBS whose focus is triathlons. They also realise my limitations. The project is still open to improvement as I have only had one decent ride on it so far, but went off road on a gravel path with excellent results. I came home with no aches and pains which considering I haven't ridden for approx a month and it had been a week since I went swimming is not bad!

I would suggest that you go back to the photos and study them carefully and you will see that the bike is very well proportioned.

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Jackie

Road Bike: Felt F100

XS Ladies Giant Upland (modified)- see it go!
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t363004.html

artemidorus

Clearly, what works is what works, but I have to say that I'm with Anthony on this one - I'd reverse the seat clamp and use a much shorter stem for the generic short person with bike fit problems involving sore wrists/hands/shoulders/back. That's how I've set up my partner on her FB road bike - I've slid the seat all the way aft and installed the 60mm highrise BBB stem. She feels that it's now much more comfortable.

eldavo

I specifically was looking for non-suspension mountain/comfort bikes. To get one with suspension lockout forks now means $6-700+, added cost I don't need and usually others like disc brakes which I also don't want.

I find it odd that they market non adjustable entry level forks as "taking the sting out of the pavement" while giving solid seat posts and small hard saddles. I think they're a cheap gimmick/fad.

My Giant Iguana SE 10 years ago had Rox Shocks with pre-load adjustment, but with no lockout and on the firmest selection, I would still lose power up hills pumping through the suspension forks instead of through the pedals.

Bits on the Iguana which the Upland could do with are grippy steel pedals with regular shoe toe cage/strap, and maybe bull horn bars which I think open the upper body up more for pumping up those steep bastard hills.

anthonyg

Little Jackie,

If you like the way the bike fits then that's fine. It's just from a public information point of view on a public board I wanted to question it. I've riden a number of bikes that were too big for me over the years including a custom road bike and I used to ride them long distances but since going through a learning/design proccess and then building my curent bike the difference is like night and day.

To cut a long story short I went for proportionaly correct crank length, for me that's 140 mm according to http://www.cranklength.info and enough saddle setback to acheive KOPS (knee over pedal spindle). For me that's 70 mm of saddle setback!

OK your bike started out well with 150 mm cranks but then your saddle went the wrong way. Maybe you don't need 70 mm of setback like me but you realy don't need to be infront of the BB which your bike apears to be. You could try things out for yourself if you want, I realy think that you would be MUCH more comfortable if you moved the seat rearward.

For the record I'm not that much younger than you at 42 years.

Regards, Anthony

Little Jackie

You have missed the point, Anthony. This topic is not about bike fit. It is about upgrades to entry level MTBs for people who don't want to spend too much money!

I actually owned a 24" MTB prior to this one, but it is next to impossible to get decent tyres and we couldn't find any rigid forks. Also the bike was slightly too small and far too heavy. The Upland is more comfortable as the suspension forks were not very good. I also needed a bike that I could lend to friends if necessary.

10 years is a lot, I have noticed a distinct change in my body the last 2 years!

__________________
Jackie

Road Bike: Felt F100

XS Ladies Giant Upland (modified)- see it go!
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t363004.html

eldavo

I stopped by Cyclerama on Charles St. for the first time today.

They had plain black riser handle bars for $15 which I thought was cheap enough to try on the gf's bike. If it's not enough rise for comfort, I'll use it on mine, since I have the TT bar vertically for real upright comfort.

bigkev

can you help please i have a giant boulder with 23in frame i am 6ft 5in and turned the seat pole top around to get extra legnth put 26x1.15 tyres blackburn rack rear cluster 11-28 front 48/38/28 any ideas that i can do to the bike for touring i have done 4000 km on my old bike in 2 years only 500km on this one so far .any ideas thanks

gclark8

Kev,

From the look of things there you are just about there:
The gearing is high 48:11 top,
Tyres seem to be narrow slicks,
(Conti Sport Contact @ 26x1.3 would be optimum ),
a Good rack,
maybe some pedals with toe clips.

Lets see what Little Jackie thinks.

__________________
Cheers,
George.

xxamr_corpxx

Kev, how about bar ends?

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2004 Trek 1000
2005 Giant Elwood
ACE Folding Bicycle

bigkev

i do have a pair of shamanio mtb shoes and pedals clip one side and normal other same brand i was thinking of putting differant cranks 53/38/28 175mm long i have to find a set to fit though thanksopen to other mods i want to go on the big ride next march taree.