Sacked For Being A Christian

Carrera

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4611682.stm
"Former Prime Minister Sir John Major told the Today programme the chancellor (Gordon Brown) was "absolutely right" to promote the concept of Britishness.
But he added: "He seems not to mention that many of the actions of the present Government have ruptured Britishness by their own legislation."

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

limerickman

Hold it.

You have repeatedly posted false an misleading statements in this forum.


You remember when you falsely stated that 6 Muslims were arrested for the murder of a female PC in Bradford ?
I challenged you at the time to substantiate that false statement ; needless to say you refused to do so.
You couldn't provide any source for that false statement.

You also recall your false postings about Jack Straw opposing the wearing of Burka's?
I challenged you again at that time to verify that posting.
You refused.
You couldn't provide any source for that false statement either.

So there's no apology owed.

In fact you ought to apologise for posting libellous statements !




Hold up.

John Reid is the Home Secretary at 22/11/2006.
John Reid - not David Blunkett


Why are you quoting David Blunkett as being Home Secretary, today ???????
That's another false and misleading statement.

And why are you digging up quotes attributed to David Blunkett which are not current and which preceed the BA case and have nothing to do with the BA case ???

You're up to your old tricks again Carrera.


And for the record, Blunkett was fired from the Cabinet for lying some time back.
That was the second time he was fired from Cabinet.

You really should stop digging.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Carrera

This point seems clear to me. By 4th or 5th generation I refer to folks whose grandparents may well have fought in WW2 and just maybe are owed a decent pension and decent NHS care.
I'm surprised you see this line of argument as having anything to do with racism - just for being opposed to huge waves of immigration.
As for the Archbishop of York, he happens to be black and came here as an immigrant and so far as I'm concerned he's doing a terrific job and speaks a lot of sense.
Just maybe the grandparents of that lady may have fought in a world war same as my grandparents who suffered shell-shock to make you and me free people (supposedly). So, I don't see why this woman shouldn't be given the basic human right to show her beliefs same as everybody else instead of being rated as a third rate citizen.
Naturally it makes me angry and I agree with the Archbishop of York. I'm not religious either but it's principle.

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

You sound pretty angry. I seem to recall I admitted that rash statement you refer to. I even apologised. It's easy to slip up and say what you don't intend to say but we seem to be backtracking and digging up old disputes.
Lim, if I were racist in any way, I'd say so but I'm not. I had an Iraqi Kurdish guy in the house the other day which I wouldn't do if I were racist or a bigot. I treat these immigrant people the same as I'd treat anyone else with courtesy. I don't look down on anyone else.
What I oppose is when people are treated unfairly and discriminated against and mass immigration. Remember many of these immigrants now come from Eastern Europe where I lived myself. But we can't take unlimited numbers and we can't expect people to adapt to those who come seeking a new life. Also, if you study what I originally wrote I blamed BA not the immigrants themselves for the situation over the cross.

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

thebluetrain

Since we are talking about Immigration, check out this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEl6HdfqWM

thebirdman

My understanding of the minimal jewellery requirements for staff at airports has been from a Occupational Health and Safety stand point.

From that stand point I will argue for the Sihk Turban as it keeps the his long hair up and out of the way, and it looks alot less dorkier than a man with a pony tail. The open faced hijab can also be worn in such a way that there are no loose ends. There are many industries that would welcome these cultural head coverings as they would reduce the costs of supplying hairnets. During the second world war turbans had to be made fashionable to encourage women to work safely in factories fore the war effort, enter Camen Maranda. Here in Australia authorities are trying to get us to wear wide brim hats, outside, to attempt to reduce skin cancer.

The cross on the chain is actually starting to push the minimal jewellery rules.

When I worked for Ansett and then the 'Red Rat' (QANTAS), the minimal jewellery rule was limited to a plain watch, a single plain wedding or signet ring, and/or for women, 1 set of small plain ear rings or studs as was also stated by the BA talking head.

I can still remember when the controversy caused when one of my male colleagues wore a single ear stud to work. That one was easily pleaded out, in his favour, on sexual discrimination grounds, but in general the minimal jewelery rules basically remain the same.

From Check-in and specially the ramp area it is a factory like environment. There are conveyor belts, lifting equipment, motor vehicles and all other manner of machinery. As such loose objects have to be kept to a minimum.

Jewellery has a habit falling off or getting caught in machinery. It either fouls up the machinery or can seriously injure the wearer.

Little Jackie

It appears to me that she was not sacked for being a Christian, but for wearing a chain! The Book is quite clear about obeying those in authority.

__________________
Jackie

Road Bike: Felt F100

XS Ladies Giant Upland (modified)- see it go!
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t363004.html

thebirdman

In a long winded way that is what I was trying to say.

Carrera

The book is also clear about denial and non-denial seems to me to be a fundamental tenent of the Christian creed. There's a New Testament verse that states those who deny they're Christians will be denied when they supposedly ascend to paradise which is what Christians actually believe will happen in their belief system.
The cross in this case isn't an actual requirement for the faith in question but, on the other hand, it has become a bone of contention linked to witnessing of faith, correct?
As I see it, the woman has been requested not to let other people know she has some connection with Christianity but she's also been told she can keep her job if she works away from the public eye where she's less of an embarrassment?. Isn't that a bit like the early Christians being asked to perform a sacrifice to the Roman Emperor and signing a document to state they renounce their beliefs (on a far smaller scale, granted).
Let me clarify my position. I'm not an atheist and I'm not a Christian (agnostic is the word) although I do have some understanding of Christianity as a historical event. My argument isn't so much about the rights and wrongs of religion but it relates to "discrimination". BA allows other workers to wear religious bangles, beads, veils, turbans and, in some cases, the burkah. When you apply one set of rules to one group and a different set of rules to another group, to my mind, that's discrimination.
They picked an easy target and I'm glad it backfired with all the publicity on Fox News.
I always like to see the underdog fighjt back these days and will basically admire anyone who's prepared to make a stand, same as Muhammad Ali did over Vietnam and his particular beliefs. It's to do with strength of character and not allowing some company or other to walk all over you. It's a small point but it's principle.

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

"The Book is quite clear about obeying those in authority."

Hmmmm, so, why did the early Christians refuse to sign a document denying their beliefs and offer incense to the emperor during the persecutions of Decius? This is where I guess you have to be a wee bit careful quoting chapter and verse as there are various interpretations. Couldn't you argue that seeing as those in authority had ordered the early Christians to make that sacrifice, then they should have obeyed the law of the land?
This lady is being asked to deny what she believes in public from her own point of view in the same way as many folks wanted Muhammad Ali to revert to his former name of Cassius Clay which he wouldn't do.

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

"My understanding of the minimal jewellery requirements for staff at airports has been from a Occupational Health and Safety stand point."

You do make a valid point here but I think this position is a bit too kind and understanding towards B.A.'s position and gives them an easy way out. I'm afraid I suspect there is a clear underlying motive behind this event and I'm not alone in that view, seeing as the Archbishop Of York and several Tories have taken issue with B.A.
I think B.A. are making excuses and they probably see this woman as an embarrassment in the same way as BBC broadcasters had also been asked to remove their tiny crucifixes while on TV. I know there was some debate about that in the BBC but are we to believe the crucifix might get entangled somehow in the mike and give the individual in question an electric shock.

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

thebirdman

When you check your bag in at the airport you are placing your bag on a conveyor belt. In many factories conveyor belts are caged off. But at airport check-in they are open. A colleague got dragged along a conveyor when a diamond cluster from her new engagement ring got caught in the handle of a 32kg suit case. Lucky for my colleague the cluster mount broke away from the rest of the ring.

The number of times that I have had to stop and repair check-in and retrieval conveyor belts or call someone in, because various objects have fallen into them are to numerous to count.

If this woman was working in administation, sales, or anywhere in offices away from the check-in/ramp area of the airport then I would most probably agree with you on discrimination, but this woman was working in the check-in area.

davidmc

Agreed. See my Sig.

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

davidmc

Is BA a "private" or "state-owned" enterprise If it is "private" then thay can do as they wish.

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )