Page 9 - Sacked For Being A Christian

30-11.-2006, 10:15 AM

#121

limerickman

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

I found several websites devoted to the boycott but it's still early days yet. The boycott hasn't yet spread to the U.S. although Fox News has featured this incident.
As for the Christianity issue, it's not so much to do with that. Seeing as the cross of St George has been adopted by football supporters, they're pretty upset too. One guy posted this:

"Dear B.A.
I have always been pleased with the excellent service provided by B.A.
I am using a temporary Yahoo account, as I prefer for you not to know my identity. As a C.E.O. of a large corporation in the UK, I will no longer be allowing my employees (some 350+) to use B.A. for any business related flights whatsoever."

"I think the website is a good idea. I'm not Christian myself but I think the way the woman was treated was very poor. If you want to show your support for BA, go buy a plane ticket somewhere, I frankly won't be using them. PC gone mad.... again!
English Expat"

"Have sold all my shares in BA yesterday in protest. Cannot believe that a large company can behave so unjustly and discriminatory."

"I am and always will be an atheist but this is a step too far by way of discrimination. Reverse this foolhardiness or I will never fly BA again."

"I’m in Australia, and have a Qantas card (and United, and KAL), but I’m willing to boycott any code share flight. How about that? E-mail Qantas if you want, and tell them if they carry BA passengers I’m not even going to get on their plane. Great site. Good job. "

So - the best you can offer is an annonymous posting from a website?

Legally BA were 100% to suspend this lady.
A tribunal endorsed BA's action.
So BA are 100% correct.

The CBI, which is the umbrella group for companies throughout the UK has backed BA.
The CBI represent practically all of the FTSE Top 100 companies.
If there was any doubt about stance which BA have taken - the CBI wouldn't have backed BA.

These days, Carerra, companies have to be extremely careful when it comes to Health and Safety.
Companies as corporate entities can be sued if they fail with regard to H&S.
No company should be held to ransom by their employees when it comes to H&S.
By not complying with H&S, BA would be negligent to allow an employee to compromise BA's H&S code.

Carerra, I think your argument has been shown to be throughly flawed.
You've been shown to have lied and you have been shown to have misrepresented the facts on this topic.
The dearth of your argument is demonstrated by the fact that you cna't even get the title of the top correct.
Reduced to posting comments from annoymous sources on other websites - doesn't is a pitiful attempt to bolster a shot point of view.

I would strongly suggest that you stop subscribing to the DM and read a paper which prints factual information.

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morelike hypocrisy.

30-11.-2006, 10:19 AM

#122

limerickman

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

Let's put it this way. Lim was wrong about the BNP for starters so it figures he slipped up over this idea of there not being any publicity apart from the Mail.
The BNP have stated they believed WW2 was exaggerated so, for obvious reasons, I'm hardly going to be a BNP supporter. I'm not even a football supporter.

BNP members usually deny that they're BNP members, when asked about the BNP.

30-11.-2006, 10:29 AM

#123

limerickman

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by EoinC

Aaaah, OK...
Lim, at the time you wrote the above statement, was it correct?

Course it was corrrect.

the story wasn't a feature on the media when I posted that message - not until the tribunal came back with it's verdict of support for BA did the media start reporting thisc ase to any great extent.

Having been beaten in the tribunal - this lady's publicity people went to the press to try to smear BA.

The fact of the matter is that BA's HR procedures were scruitinised and found to have been above reproach.

I think this gullible lady is being manipulated by publicists to be honest.
She hasn't a legal leg to stand on, at the time of writing.
Not that people are interested in the legal nuances of the case.

BA has in the past been locked in publicity battles during the 1980/90's.
John Basham made his name as a publicist then.

30-11.-2006, 02:35 PM

#124

davidmc

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

"Lesser breaches of contract - misconduct - may result in an employee being suspended with or without pay (depending in the view taken by the company)"

I think the entire globe knows exactly what the view of the company is. The company thought they'd get away with their current policy but public opinion is running pretty strong against B.A.
I think she's now in the position to take them for everything she can get. She has all the cards stacked in her favour but let's remember she didn't start this fight.
B.A. started the fight but picked the wrong opponent.

Are you stating that you wish the company to be sued

This would not help her position unless she doesn't want to work there any more and what about the people that do

Besides, what good will it profit your country when the air travel industry is not exactly surging ahead in profits

How many airlines do you have in that you can afford to throw BA overboard to make a political statement

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Last edited by davidmc : 30-11.-2006 at 02:42 PM.

30-11.-2006, 03:01 PM

#125

EoinC

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmc

Are you stating that you wish the company to be sued

This would not help her position unless she doesn't want to work there any more and what about the people that do

Besides, what good will it profit your country when the air travel industry is not exactly surging ahead in profits

How many airlines do you have in that you can afford to throw BA overboard to make a political statement

Carrera is arguing for a boycott of a service that he doesn't use (I'm guessing there, but he did not answer my question on how much impact it would have on BA for him not to fly with them).
Actually, Carrera does not appear to have answered any of the questions I have asked him. It almost makes me wonder if his stance is flawed

I don't fly them very often, although I did use them for a Singapore / Heathrow / Gatwick / Aberdeen return flight earlier this year, but I don't think I would boycott them for having insisted that their OH&S rules were complied with.

30-11.-2006, 03:51 PM

#126

EoinC

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by EoinC

...I don't fly them very often, although I did use them for a Singapore / Heathrow / Gatwick / Aberdeen return flight earlier this year, but I don't think I would boycott them for having insisted that their OH&S rules were complied with.

My apologies for including "them" 500 times in 1 sentence. Yesterday was a 21 hr work day, followed by 4 hrs of sleep and the start of a new day. My coherence is waining.....Aaaaah, coffee.

01-12.-2006, 12:11 AM

#127

Carrera

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

"These days, Carerra, companies have to be extremely careful when it comes to Health and Safety."

Crosses, watches and jewelry on my boat do represent a risk. However, so do ceremonial swords and daggers.
It may well be true that a cross on a chain could cause a short circuit and fire as I know one boat owner who reached behind some wiring with his watch still on. His watch heated up immediately.
Despite that, the same danger would be posed by a ceremonial sword. Drop a ceremonial sword around the battery bank and you could get an explosion.
As for veils and turbans, these don't pose a risk on my boat.
So, supposing I were an employer how would I get round it?
Dead simple: Provide my employees with non metallic crosses and ceremonial swords.
Let's be sensible here. If you run a big company you have to make every effort to ensure your staff are seen to be treated with decency. You cannot discriminate against any group, be they Christians, Sikhs, lesbians, Scientologists or whatever.
I don't know how much B.A. will be hurt by this episode, whether they will find custom elsewhere, ignore the bad publicity or introduce reform. I do know that the public are pretty angry but for different reasons.
That simply ain't good for any business. No way would I run my own business along those lines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

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01-12.-2006, 12:23 AM

#128

Carrera

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Personally speaking, my personal boycott of B.A. will affect them zilch. I normally fly Estonian Air as they're cheaper.
Having said that, I will take pains not to fly with B.A. if they offer me a B.A. flight at a travel agency and I'm planning a trip.
I will freely admit my particular boycott will hardly break the bank. However, on a serious note, you really don't know whether some of these boycotters are the real deal or not.
The guy who claims he runs a business which regularly flies large numbers of staff via B.A. could be genuine. If so, that's not at all good for business. Then you have all those M.P.'s. Then you have some of the football supporters who might be upset over their St George flag as well as some of the Bible States in the U.S.
Look, my take on this is pretty simple. I'm not intolerant. I don't seek to ban the veil as many people over here seem to desire. I don't mind B.A, staff wearing veils, turbans or ceremonial daggers.
However, I do object to a decent employee being treated in this way by a large company.
I'm also backed by the Pope, The Anglican Church, the Moslem Council of Britain, Jack Straw. Poodle Blair and the public opinion in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EoinC

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

01-12.-2006, 02:06 AM	#129
Carrera Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 4,816	Re: Sacked For Being A Christian FLASH: NADIA EWEIDA REJECTS BA OFFER In a new development, Nadia Eweida has rejected B.A.s proposal to display the tiny cross in the form of a lapel badge. Miss Eweida will tell airline bosses she will not back down when she is called in for a further meeting at BA's offices in Heathrow this week. BA chief executive Willie Walsh bowed to pressure after Dr Rowan Williams threatened to sell the Church of England's £6.6million worth of shares in the airline. In a sign of the public support for her case, a poll published yesterday revealed that 92 per cent of people backed the right of individuals to wear crosses at work. A massive 79 per cent surveyed by ICM for the News of the World said workers should wear any item associated with their religion, while 80 per cent condemned BA's actions. Some 65 per cent said traditional British culture was being eroded by political correctness. __________________ "Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

01-12.-2006, 02:44 AM

#130

EoinC

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

FLASH: NADIA EWEIDA REJECTS BA OFFER
In a new development, Nadia Eweida has rejected B.A.s proposal to display the tiny crosses in the form of a lapel badge...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

...Miss Eweida will tell airline bosses she will not back down when she is called in for a further meeting at BA's offices in Heathrow this week...

...indicating that she is unwilling to comply with OH&S standards, commensurate with her position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

...BA chief executive Willie Walsh bowed to pressure after Dr Rowan Williams threatened to sell the Church of England's £6.6million worth of shares in the airline. ...

Church of England Company, Inc is free to carry forth its capitalist aspirations to its shareholders content. It means nowt to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

...In a sign of the public support for her case, a poll published yesterday revealed that 92 per cent of people backed the right of individuals to wear crosses at work. ....

There are work situations where the wearing of exposed jewelry is not conducive to safe practices. Do those 92% believe that this is never the case?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

...A massive 79 per cent surveyed by ICM for the News of the World said workers should wear any item associated with their religion, while 80 per cent condemned BA's actions...

My own religion requires me to wear an 8' diameter sombrero, with razor-sharp edges. By their declaration, these 79% believe that there should be no workplace that does not allow this. Incidentally, "79%" (empirical) does not need to be preceeded by massive (subjective) when trying to state a fact. 79% is 79%. A massive 79% is no different to a miniscule 79% - I really can be a pedantic b'stard when I try, can't I?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

...Some 65 per cent said traditional British culture was being eroded by political correctness.

"British culture" is being eroded by sensationalist media-bred claims having greater value than simple factual evidence.

01-12.-2006, 03:03 AM

#131

Colorado Ryder

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by EoinC

Um, Carrera, did you just say that BA allows cross to be worn as lapel badges, but does not want them (or anything else) worn as exposed jewelry around the neck? If BA had a problem with employees wearing crosses, per se, they would not allow them to be worn as lapel badges. BA do have a problem with their check-in counter employees wearing exposed jewelry around the neck. They don't care whether or not it is a cross. Thank you for proving this to be the case.
...indicating that she is unwilling to comply with OH&S standards, commensurate with her position.
Church of England Company, Inc is free to carry forth its capitalist aspirations to its shareholders content. It means nowt to me.
There are work situations where the wearing of exposed jewelry is not conducive to safe practices. Do those 92% believe that this is never the case?
My own religion requires me to wear an 8' diameter sombrero, with razor-sharp edges. By their declaration, these 79% believe that there should be no workplace that does not allow this. Incidentally, "79%" (empirical) does not need to be preceeded by massive (subjective) when trying to state a fact. 79% is 79%. A massive 79% is no different to a miniscule 79% - I really can be a pedantic b'stard when I try, can't I?
"British culture" is being eroded by sensationalist media-bred claims having greater value than simple factual evidence.

One has to wonder about the true intentions of this lady. Being Christian doesn't mean wearing a cross. Its about whats in the individuals heart.

01-12.-2006, 04:57 AM

#132

lwedge

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

OK - my country has been the country of choice for immigrants from Eastern Europe for the past 10 years.
The economic boom has ensured that thousands of Poles/Lithuanians/Latvians/
Serbs/Romanians/Chinese, have arrived here.
Plenty of British people, Americans and French have also moved here.

It's the Golf Courses you know. They all want to play the KClub and Connemara.

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http://www.chevalierwinery.com/

01-12.-2006, 06:48 AM

#133

limerickman

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by EoinC

You've hit the nail squarely on the head there, Eoin.

He's contradicted himself.

01-12.-2006, 06:51 AM

#134

limerickman

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

One has to wonder about the true intentions of this lady. Being Christian doesn't mean wearing a cross. Its about whats in the individuals heart.

Agreed.

I think that the lady may feel that she has a genuine grievance - but she's been badly advised.

BA have a 34 page employee handbook - given to all 34,000 BA employees which stipulates, among other things, employees dress code.

01-12.-2006, 07:29 AM

#135

Carrera

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Re: Sacked For Being A Christian

Eoin C, you're jumping in again without paying attention.

Surely by this stage you must be aware the lapel badge was an offer made to the woman after she refused to back down.
B.A. never had any intention of providing a so-called badge till it was forced by media publicity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EoinC

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

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