Hilary Clinton

Originally Posted by tonyzackery

As I can readily distinguish, you are not Black, so I can understand from where your viewpoint may come. However, as being an American Black man living in Canada at the present time, I deal with the auspices of racism first hand, on a daily basis, in both my professional and private life.

With regard to your comment concerning a "conspiracy", there is a conspiracy - it's not down to the individual level, I grant you that - but on a global level, yes, there is a concerted effort on the part of the majority to keep the obvious minority in it a disenfranchised state as it maintains the status quo.

You have your opinion, and I have mine....

Originally Posted by wolfix

I agree racism is alive and running strong here in America among the blue collar whites. {The biggest voting block the Democrats have on election day} I will argue the "conspiracy" part. I think your thoughts could be reversed. I see more of an individual part in racism. Not a organized process, but one based on individual thoughts and actions.And my opinion is that the individual is more damaging.

My prediction for this election will show how deep it is. I feel Obama will lose by a great margin............ He will be defeated by the Democratic voter. Once that curtain is closed at the booth, we will see America's true thoughts.

The caucus's were filled with "Birkenstockers", and college students. On election day they become a very small block of voters.There is nothing more racist then a Democratic blue collar worker.

America has a long way to go.....

Originally Posted by wolfix

My prediction for this election will show how deep it is. I feel Obama will lose by a great margin............ He will be defeated by the Democratic voter. Once that curtain is closed at the booth, we will see America's true thoughts.

The caucus's were filled with "Birkenstockers", and college students. On election day they become a very small block of voters.There is nothing more racist then a Democratic blue collar worker.

Originally Posted by garage sale GT

Let's not forget that Barack Obama is a freshman senator and is one of the most liberal members of Congress.

Originally Posted by tonyzackery

However, as being an American Black man living in Canada at the present time, I deal with the auspices of racism first hand, on a daily basis, in both my professional and private life.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

You are the one who said Clinton would win the nomination by a large margin and not be bothered at all by Obama.

If Obama gets over the issues with his church, he will win in November. When Obama and McCain meet in debate or at a town hall meeting, Obama will hold his own against McCain. That will dissipate the idea that Obama is weaker than McCain on foreign policy and national security. Given Obama's talents and McCain's less than articulate communication style, I would not be surprised if McCain ends up being weakened on such issues even as Obama is strengthened.

I think you are misreading this election year. Bush has done incalcuable damage to the Republican party. Wait until gas goes to $5, retail industry falls off a cliff, and/or mass layoffs start. McCain is being portrayed as Bush 3.0. People who probably would not vote for a black man in ordinary circumstances will vote for Obama because of legitimate fears that Bush's policies will be continued. The Dem primary turnout and the special elections that have been held point to massive problems for the Republicans. Even Newt Gingrich has pointed this out, and that was before the Repubs lost the Congressional seat in Mississippi's special election, a district that Bush carried by 25 points in 2004 and the Republican party poured tons of money into this year.

I was talking to a guy the other day, who was not too keen about Obama but as he put it, "It doesn't matter if he [Obama] gives every black man in the country a free Cadillac. It will still be cheaper than this stupid war."

Originally Posted by Crankyfeet

I'm kinda somewhere between Wolfy and Bro in predicting what will happen. I agree with Wolfy that racism still exists on an individual level in segments of the population (in all races)... rather than the huge secret society-like conspiracy... that TZ alludes to... and I agreee that Bush's reign is McCain's biggest obstacle. But I noticed that Hillary mentioned that 18 million people supported her in the Dem primaries. That aint much people. If you assume that the Dem battle was a huge one and drew out voters in big numbers... and you assume that Obama drew the same number of votes approximately... that's only 36 million voters (IF he gets all of Hillary's votes which he won't).

I think Obama suffers because McCain is just maverick enough (but with the aura of "experience")... and non-Washington enough to steal some of his "change" platform... despite his backing of Bush's policies. I think Obama's strength is that he is smart... and says all the right things charismatically... and nails everything that has been wrong with the last eight years of propaganda. But the elderly (who are a huge faction of the voting public.... esp. considering the baby boomer bubble)... will tend towards McCain IMO. This is not 1960... when the young baby boomers probably helped JFK. (Post edit - I just worked out that in 1960 - the oldest baby boomer was 14 years old - so forget the last point)

I think it's going to be close.... and could come down to what McCain has up his sleeve in the form of Rove-style mud on Obama... and whether McCain puts his foot in his mouth with some stupid comment and/or loses his temper. I've got a hunch it might be a McCain Presidency.. coupled with a Dem congress.

Just 2c from someone who has followed US politics for a long time but only lived here 7 years.... so I don't have everyone else's experience.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

To reiterate a point I made in a previous post, I am not predicting Obama will win. I think it's possible and, at this point, even likely. What I dispute is the point that Wolfix and Tony Z. seem to be making that Obama winning is impossible and that racists will pour out the woodwork to prevent him from winning.

In some ways Obama's race will help him. McCain will be forced to walk through a mine field as he tries to criticize Obama without making it racial. The mainstream media, which is very politically correct, will be waiting to jump on him when he makes a mistake.

I ran into something pretty funny the other day. There is a pic of Bush and McCain celebrating McCain's birthday that was taken on the same day as Katrina hit. You really cannot make this shit up. Someone photoshopped a version with the caption "Let them eat cake."

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2418...affa0db.jpg?v=0

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

You are the one who said Clinton would win the nomination by a large margin and not be bothered at all by Obama.

If Obama gets over the issues with his church, he will win in November. When Obama and McCain meet in debate or at a town hall meeting, Obama will hold his own against McCain. That will dissipate the idea that Obama is weaker than McCain on foreign policy and national security. Given Obama's talents and McCain's less than articulate communication style, I would not be surprised if McCain ends up being weakened on such issues even as Obama is strengthened.

I think you are misreading this election year. Bush has done incalcuable damage to the Republican party. Wait until gas goes to $5, retail industry falls off a cliff, and/or mass layoffs start. McCain is being portrayed as Bush 3.0. People who probably would not vote for a black man in ordinary circumstances will vote for Obama because of legitimate fears that Bush's policies will be continued. The Dem primary turnout and the special elections that have been held point to massive problems for the Republicans. Even Newt Gingrich has pointed this out, and that was before the Repubs lost the Congressional seat in Mississippi's special election, a district that Bush carried by 25 points in 2004 and the Republican party poured tons of money into this year.

I was talking to a guy the other day, who was not too keen about Obama but as he put it, "It doesn't matter if he [Obama] gives every black man in the country a free Cadillac. It will still be cheaper than this stupid war."

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

If you are dealing with racism on a daily basis then you really need to move and/or change professions.

I'm with Cranky on this. It will be great when Obama becomes president because it will cut down the excuses and whinging by those who use the past to explain their failures in the present. The Irish and the Catholics did not think they had truly made it in America until JFK was elected.

Originally Posted by wolfix

Obama has yet to win an election where white people mattered.
He has won an election where the majority of the voters were black.Nothing nationally....

I have seen racism at all levels and every where in the country.But I deal with blue collar workers on a daily basis. Voters............ The cacuses showed us the majority of them could not stand Hilary, which I am surprised at. Because they liked Bill. But I have yet to talk to any of them that would vote for Obama. And these are the Democrats that vote.

McCain is the perfect canidate for the working Democrat. He is a war hero.That will be on their minds when the time comes............

Originally Posted by limerickman

But McCain seems to struggle to persuade the rightwingers in the Republican party.
From what I gather, they despise him to the extent that they were prepared to endorse Hillary Clinton instead of McCain!
Again though this is going on surveys.

Originally Posted by limerickman

But McCain seems to struggle to persuade the rightwingers in the Republican party.