Hilary Clinton

Crankyfeet

Okay..its time the troll, Crank, entered the thread to ruin it.

I think Obama could give Hillary a run for her money...
Contrary to most on this thread, I think McCain will probably win the Republican nomination...
If you want to see everything good that the US has over the rest of the world dismantled within two elections, introduce compulsory voting like Australia has...
I will say though, that the preferential voting system has merit IMO.

Wurm

Well, NOW my point is that your responses above are nothing more than Social Darwinism and/or corporatist libertarianism...which borders on fascism, and I'd really not enjoy wasting hours of keyboard time in an endless, circular debate with that type of viewpoint.

This is one of the main reasons I rarely post on YBSB anymore.



The Republican and Democratic parties of today are not real conservatives or true progressives. They're simply 2 sides of the same oligarchical, imperialist coin.

__________________
"Bush is the first President to admit to an impeachable offense."

- John Dean, former Counsel to the President (Nixon)

The aim of big corporations is to separate fools from their money all of the time and ordinary folks from their money most of the time. The rest of us must fend for ourselves.

stilesiii

Well at least we agree on something.

Bro Deal

Obama rally:


Hillary rally:


McCain rally:

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Crankyfeet

Bro... you need to be on the Obama campaign...


I love the way he has answered the attacks in the past few weeks. I love the way he has put the McCain/Bush camp in their place.


I still think McCain has a BIG chance in the next election. Just my opinion. I think he captures a lot of the safety votes...and can be considered enough of an outsider to be different from Bush, despite his poltical backing to Bush's policies.

The unfortunate thing about democracy is that votes are not weighted by IQ.

Burn me.

TheDarkLord

These people cannot even spell Obama's middle name properly??? If they really mean some jab by the mispelling, it is over my head.

jhuskey

Hey, when you have incredible good looks, you don't need to be smart.

__________________
Whenever I can't get excited about riding I just fantasize about someone else's bike.

limerickman

Yesterdays Sunset Times reports that a large part of Obamas succession is due to the input of Tom Daschle (former senator).

How accurate is that?????

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Bro Deal

Obama's connection to Daschle goes back a few years. The Republicans made a huge effort to oust Daschle from his seat in 2004. Obama was winning his senate seat easily, so he gave a large amount of money to Daschle's campaign. Daschle lost but Obama undoubtedly was left with a large chip in the game.

If I remember right, Obama talked to a number of people about running for president. He has had presidential ambitions for a while. Some say that all senators have presidential ambitions, but Obama was recognized as someone who might actually succeed. Everyone expected that he would wait until 2008 or 2012. Daschle told him not to think he will have the chance to run in the future. Daschle may very well be the one who pursuaded Obama to give it a go for 2008.

Daschle provided Obama with an ally within the insider network of the Democratic party. This is extremely important for Obama because the Clintons own the DLC wing of the party. They have a huge amount of clout, and large numbers of the Dem power elite owe the Clintons in some way or another. Daschle is extremely respected in the Democratic establishment. Daschle support gave Obama legitimacy. Reportedly he has provided fundraising contacts, staffers, and ongoing advice.

I have also read that Daschle was intimately involved with Obama's campaign in Iowa, the success of which put Clinton on the defensive for the rest of the campaign. Obama was also very successful in raising money in 2007. This was before the general public was paying attention to the election and Obama's grass roots fund raising probably was not as effective as it was in 2008. It would not surprise me if that initial fund raising was due in part to Daschle.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

limerickman

Thanks for this reply.

We wouldn't get the minute details that you've given here, in our media coverage of the Dems race.
The Times also reported that Edwards endorsement of Obama means that Obama will have even more delegates going in to the final round of primaries.

Definitely Obama seems to have the prevailing momentum...........is it strong enough to win the DMc nomination and to beat McCain?
Again the Sunset Times reports that mcCain although polling well, is losing ground especially with public utterances of Bush.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

lyotard

you can tell by them there facial expressions, it is enough to them that obama is muslim, that correct spelling is a non-issue!

__________________
"i think it would be a good idea"

-mahatma gandhi, upon being posed the question
"what do you think of western civilization?"

Crankyfeet

Obama is Muslim? You're joking right? You do know that he was born in America and has never been a Muslim.

lyotard

cranky,
my post here was indeed meant as a bit of rum and coke,
as it is a not-uncommon belief, albeit false, among a certain segment of american voters that he is muslim!

__________________
"i think it would be a good idea"

-mahatma gandhi, upon being posed the question
"what do you think of western civilization?"

TheDarkLord

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/pr...ender_camp.html

Adventures In Identity Politics

By Charles Krauthammer
WASHINGTON -- Elections can be about policy, personality or identity. The race between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton is surely not about policy. The differences between the two are microscopic.

It did not start out that way. Last year, when Hillary was headed toward a coronation, she deliberately ran to the center. She took more moderate views on Iraq, for example, and voted to designate Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terrorist organization.

When she began taking heat for these positions from the other candidates and the Democratic Party's activist core, and as her early lead began to erode, she quickly tacked left and found herself inhabiting precisely the same ideological space as Obama.


With no substantive differences left, the Obama-Clinton campaign was reduced to personality and identity. Not advantageous ground for Hillary. In a personality contest with the charismatic young phenom, she loses in a landslide.

What to do? First, adjust your own persona. Hence that New Hampshire tear and an occasional strategic show of vulnerability to soften her image. It worked for a while, but personality remakes are simply too difficult to pull off for someone as ingrained in the national consciousness as Clinton.

If you cannot successfully pretty yourself, dirty the other guy. Hence the relentless attacks designed to redefine Obama and take him down to the level of ordinary mortals, i.e. Hillary's. Thus the contrived shock on the part of the Clinton campaign that an Obama economic adviser would tell the Canadians not to pay too much attention to Obama's anti-NAFTA populism or that Samantha Power would tell the BBC not to pay too much attention to Obama's current withdrawal plans for Iraq.

The attack line writes itself: Says one thing and means another. So much for the man of new politics. Just an ordinary politician -- like Hillary.

That same maladroit foreign policy adviser is caught calling Hillary a monster. A resignation demand nicely calls attention to the fact that the Obama campaign -- surprise! -- hurls invective. And a strategic mention of Tony Rezko, the Chicago fixer who was once Obama's patron, nicely attaches to Obama a whiff of corruption by association.

These attacks have a cumulative effect. Obama mania is beginning to wear off. Charisma is intrinsically transient. But Hillary's attacks have succeeded in hastening its dissipation.

So if there are no policy issues between them and the personality differences have been whittled down, what's left? Identity. Race, age and gender. Is this campaign about anything else?

Nationally, the older white woman -- Clinton -- carries the senior vote, the white vote and the women's vote. The younger black man -- Obama -- carries the youth vote, the black vote and the male vote. This was perhaps inevitable in the first campaign in which a woman and an African-American have a serious chance at the presidency. But it received a significant gravity assist from Bill Clinton's South Carolina forays into racial politics.

Did Bill Clinton deliberately encourage racial polarization by saying before South Carolina that one expects women to vote for Hillary and blacks for Obama? Or, after the primary, by dismissing Obama's victory with: "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice"?

With Bill Clinton you never know. And there is no proving cause and effect, but the chronology is striking. Two weeks before the South Carolina primary, Obama was leading Hillary among blacks by only 53 percent to 30 percent. Ten days later, Obama was ahead 59 to 25. On Election Day, he got 78 percent of the black vote. By the time the campaign trail reached Mississippi on Tuesday, Obama was getting 92 percent of the black vote. And only 26 percent of the white vote.

The pillars of American liberalism -- the Democratic Party, the universities and the mass media -- are obsessed with biological markers, most particularly race and gender. They have insisted, moreover, that pedagogy and culture and politics be just as seized with the primacy of these distinctions and with the resulting "privileging" that allegedly haunts every aspect of our social relations.

They have gotten their wish. This primary campaign represents the full flowering of identity politics. It's not a pretty picture. Geraldine Ferraro says Obama is only where he is because he's black. Professor Orlando Patterson says the 3 a.m. phone call ad is not about a foreign policy crisis but a subliminal Klan-like appeal to the fear of "black men lurking in the bushes around white society."

Good grief. The optimist will say that when this is over, we will look back on the Clinton-Obama contest, and its looming ugly endgame, as the low point of identity politics, and the beginning of a turning away. The pessimist will just vote Republican.