Armstrong moderated Presidential campaign forum

Originally Posted by Gregers

ThoughtFF, I've got a direct comparison for you. If nothing else, in order to come back with an ignorant sneer at social medicine, Saluki will be forced to momentarily stop riding his Lance dolly.
I had to go back to the NHS this morning for my own smashed up hand. A week ago in the ER I had multiple X rays, an anaesthetic and a dislocation put
back. All dealt with fairly promptly and very competently. Today, I saw an experienced Consultant who examined me at length. I had my injuries re-dressed and I was provided with sufficient replacements. I was also given an appointment to see a plastic surgeon who will carry out reconstruction. Total time was just over an hour and it cost nothing. Ours is far from being a perfect system and it has it's gross inefficiencies. Nevertheless, it's there for everyone who needs it and nobody has to worry about the financial implications. If I'm not satisfied, I'm perfectly at liberty to make my own private arrangements. It generally make things quicker for elective surgery, but essentially you will be dealt with by the same doctors.
Saluki might rant about these crappy, social doctors who, naturally, lack the balanced cerebral processes that he demonstrates so vividly on this forum.
Nevertheless, the next time he gets friction burns on his anus from over- stimulating that orifice with his collection of yellow jerseys, I'll warrant that a trip to my free local A&E would offer far better value than the alternative that TFF has described.

Originally Posted by Gregers

I had to go back to the NHS this morning for my own smashed up hand. A week ago in the ER I had multiple X rays, an anaesthetic and a dislocation put
back. All dealt with fairly promptly and very competently. Today, I saw an experienced Consultant who examined me at length. I had my injuries re-dressed and I was provided with sufficient replacements. I was also given an appointment to see a plastic surgeon who will carry out reconstruction.

Originally Posted by Gregers

ThoughtFF, I've got a direct comparison for you. If nothing else, in order to come back with an ignorant sneer at social medicine, Saluki will be forced to momentarily stop riding his Lance dolly.
I had to go back to the NHS this morning for my own smashed up hand. A week ago in the ER I had multiple X rays, an anaesthetic and a dislocation put
back. All dealt with fairly promptly and very competently. Today, I saw an experienced Consultant who examined me at length. I had my injuries re-dressed and I was provided with sufficient replacements. I was also given an appointment to see a plastic surgeon who will carry out reconstruction. Total time was just over an hour and it cost nothing. Ours is far from being a perfect system and it has it's gross inefficiencies. Nevertheless, it's there for everyone who needs it and nobody has to worry about the financial implications. If I'm not satisfied, I'm perfectly at liberty to make my own private arrangements. It generally make things quicker for elective surgery, but essentially you will be dealt with by the same doctors.
Saluki might rant about these crappy, social doctors who, naturally, lack the balanced cerebral processes that he demonstrates so vividly on this forum.
Nevertheless, the next time he gets friction burns on his anus from over- stimulating that orifice with his collection of yellow jerseys, I'll warrant that a trip to my free local A&E would offer far better value than the alternative that TFF has described.

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

The middle east, by and large, is culturally retarded. Blacks under apartheid had more rights than women in most Muslim countries. Oil has subsidized this way of life. And yet, some of these places are incredibly poor, the slums of the world, completely lawless. Democracy? Forget it. There are some places where government of any sort can't get a foothold unless it's ruthless. Sometimes the only way to govern is to trot people out of their homes, line them up against a wall and shoot them.

Now, I can barely believe I wrote that last line, but I have seen these places. I have walked through them, albeit armed to teeth, and I know these fucked up scenarios exist. But I don't believe they have to. I'd like to believe that the best thinkers in the western world can figure these things out, but it's going to take many more 9/11s and a couple environmental 9/11s before any of that happens. It's a shame, but my belief is, humans will have to be faced with their own extinction before we act on issues like this.

Healthcare and other social welfare issues breakdown like this. You can pay up front and take care of the helpless and those who don't want to work, or you can build prisons and lock them up after they rape, steal or fly jetliners into your downtown. Seems easier to address the problem before it starts. Doesn't mean you endorse laziness or backwards thinking. Just means you're being a realist.

We're spending billions on a war in Iraq. We went in and wrecked the place. From what I'm hearing, Iraq, with a few exceptions in the north, is a giant Mogadishu. We should have never went in, but pulling troops out now is immoral. Democracy was unrealistic. Iraq will be partitioned and, in place of Saddam Hussein, there will be a half dozen Saddam Husseins. Not the shining beacon of anything that GW envisioned but at least it's under control enough for America to address its own issues, like immigration, healthcare, rebuilding New Orleans, global warming, our dependancy on oil foreign or domestic, and terrorism.

I heard on NPR this morning that last month in New Orleans there were something like 52 murders and three arrests. As an American, I find that to be embarrassing.

I don't know. What will it take? Right wing/left wing extremism is nothing more than emotionally based bullshit. It's what politicians and pundits use to make a living. Anyone taking stock in Air America or Rush Limbaugh has turned their brains off. If it's not emotionally based, people want nothing to do with it. These issues are complex, but they are solvable. They pale in comparison to some of the great physics and medical discoveries solved in our time. Pale in comparison.

I'm sure everything will work itself out. I'm going lobster diving in the Keys this weekend. Last week I got six keepers and speared two black groupers. One 20lbs, the other about 15. Free diving from a kayak. Quite a day. My wife can hold her breath for 2 1/2 minutes. I hope our grandchildren get to experience the Keys. You know, they have these endangered deer down there that grow no bigger than a greyhound. In fact, they look like dogs when you see them from afar. These little deer have stymied big development on the two biggest islands in the Keys because of their endangered status. Two big islands, perfect weather, crystal clear water, sea trout, cobia, king mackerel, stone crab, lobster (!)... perfect for hi-rise development, but of the almost 200 homes there, none are more than three stories because of a couple hundred deer, some smaller than a greyhound.

Now that's progress.

Originally Posted by Gregers

. Total time was just over an hour and it cost nothing. Ours is far from being a perfect system and it has it's gross inefficiencies. Nevertheless, it's there for everyone who needs it and nobody has to worry about the financial implications.

If I'm not satisfied, I'm perfectly at liberty to make my own private arrangements. .

Originally Posted by No_Positives

Sounds like some serious jacking off. Don't smash up your private area too.

Originally Posted by nns1400

Ok, it does not "cost nothing." It didn't cost you anything at the time you were treated, but you do pay for it in taxes. I get tired of hearing about "free" healthcare. It ain't free.

Originally Posted by nns1400

Ok, it does not "cost nothing." It didn't cost you anything at the time you were treated, but you do pay for it in taxes. I get tired of hearing about "free" healthcare. It ain't free.

In Hillary Clinton's plan, you were NOT at liberty to make private arrangements. Your doctor could face prison for treating you outside her glorious healthcare system. That's why people said NO thanks!

And didn't Mountainbikepro recently report that he had to wait 18 MONTHS to go to the dentist?!

Originally Posted by No_Positives

Excellent post.

Originally Posted by wolfix

A total misconception about the poor is that they do not have healthcare. They have healthcare. They have better healthcare then 50% of the working people. I work with the poor on a frequant basis. Many are poor because they have no motivation to work. The entitlement in this country is getting out of hand.... It is breeding people that have generations of entitlement. Entitlement robs a country.
I also understand that many are poor because they have not had anything handed to them too.
It's interesting...... I ran a bar for many years where the college liberal professor types hung out.......... They spoke of liberal causes........ I studied this......Almost all of them came from rich families. And yet when a person suggested to them that they were overpaid, they could not see your point.
Most Americans who are paid well in this country have put forth the effort to make the situation that way. Governement healthcare punishes the motivated. A country needs motivated people. Big government drains society.

Originally Posted by nns1400

Before TFF goes postal on me...........
All of these people are included in politicians' rants about the "uninsured." It is a lot more complicated than Biffy is rich and Tammy is poor and it's not fair. Not saying the system is great, but this is not Haiti, okay?

Originally Posted by thoughtforfood

<takes off his dark blue shorts with light blue stripes, light blue shirt with the eagle head logo, pepper spray, hat, and comfy Ecco shoes>

Originally Posted by thoughtforfood

And I get tired of people acting like co-pays, deductables, etc do not equal a dollar amount that is higher than the tax that would be imposed if we had socialized healthcare. It would be less per year, and so you are therefore right, it is not free, it is actually in the credit column, not the debit or 0 gain columns.