Describe You're Best Threshold Workout

11ring

Do you think this still apples if you can finish the set at higher intensities, I have been doing 2*20's at at least 110% of FTP, the last two minutes are very difficult, but i can just do this workout back to back after a good rest.

Also been trying 2 *3 *5 at about 125% Lt, but need a day off afterwards.

Or should i try 3*20 or 4*20 at 100% ???

Alex Simmons

Are you sure your FTP isn't higher than you think?

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doctorSpoc

i have to agree with Alex Simmons... if you can do repeats of 20min @ 125% FTP, you've most certainly under estimated you FTP. what you are calling 125% FTP is likely really about 110% FTP. but that's good news, you are seeing results... time to change your FTP value.

11ring

The thing is I actually cannot maintain anywhere near these intensities for any decent period of time without the rests, sometimes i cannot even do 20 minutes and have to stop at 15, but I generally can get them done, but with lots of effort.

I may have a persuiter type power profile, making the upper L4 low L5 significantly higher than FTP. But i would still expect that most peoples 20 min power is significantly higher than their hour power, at least 10% if not higher. If that is the case then you are only training at 90% of race pace when doing 2 *20 at 100 FTP. This is kind of easy training, you should be able to do it twice in the same day. If you are meant to do it this easy, then why not do more of it, maybey you could do it in 3-4 day blocks.

rmur17

tongue in cheek: but isn't 2*3*5 with rest intervals very close to a 6*5 standard L5 workout?

What are the length of your rest intervals?

Even in that case 125% of FTP is quite strong for an L5 workout - not outlandishly high if, as you mention, you're strong in the 5MP power range. Personally I'm lucky to maintain ~113% FTP average interval power for L5 or smack in the middle of the range.

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daveryanwyoming

I suspect it's a pretty rare person who has a 20 minute power 10% higher than FTP. The general swag is ~5% higher and personally my 20 minute power is only 3% higher than FTP. My high point 20 minute efforts were at 310 watts this season with FTP at 300 watts. No way I could have held 330 watts for 20 minutes which is what 10% higher implies.

One of the big things I've learned from all this power training is that interval length should be the determining factor with intensity high enough that it's hard to complete but not so high that you can't complete the efforts. IOW if you can't complete 4-5 minutes of L5 work at 125% of FTP don't drop the length, drop the intensity to a more reasonable 115%. Same for L4 work, if someone is struggling to finish at least 10 minutes at some power level it makes more sense to back off the power than to drop to shorter efforts. It's sustained time in level that determines what systems we're training so that time is really important.

Funny thing is this brings us back to what one of my first riding partners said 25 years ago, "just do intervals as hard as you can do them but always finish the full time, if you can't finish you're trying to go too hard." Of course then came fancy speedometers then HRMs and we tried to gauge everything off the hard data now PMs have shown me that original advice was pretty good. Hold the hardest repeatable steady effort for the target time durations, back off if you can't complete efforts, bump them up if they feel too easy.

-Dave

doctorSpoc

i'm sorry 11ring when you said 2*3*5 i interpreted that as sets of 2,3 and 5 for 20mins not 2*(3*5)... i.e. 2 sets of 3x5min @ 125%.. is that right? i think i'm a bit like you in that i might actually do VO2max at about that level... maybe slightly lower to ensure repeatability.. again you don't need to be absolutely burying yourself to get the addaptation you're looking for... every once in a while sure, but not every time you get on the bike, it's just not necessary and can be counter productive

but i'm just looking at some of my workouts and 20mins at 110% are pretty rare for me, in fact the very highest i've ever done is 112%, a really hard 20min is about 109% and still fairly rare... typical when fairly fresh is closer about 100-105%... typically when not so fresh is about 95-100%... so i'm thinking even 110% everytime out of the blocks is probaly a bit much.

wiredued

Just did a 95% 3x20 HR only went above threshold for 10 seconds because I wasn't paying attention and drifted upward it felt so easy alot easier than I thought it would. Seemed alot like 91% felt like last October when I started this power training journey on the cheap using the KKR.

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11ring

Yes, the vo2max workouts are 5 on 5 off for 3 sets, once in morning once at night, so 2*3*6. Power is app 310 on 150 off, Pvo2max is 330-340 watts for me. 2*20 is 20 on 5 off 20 on at 270-275w on 150w off. FTP is app 250 watts.

As a footnote, i cracked trying the 2*20 twice in the same day, had to cut the last set to 15 mins.

dontfailmenow

I have my first month of 2-3 * 20 under my belt. ? regarding VO2. Twice in same day? Why? I am planning to begin 1 vo2 session per week in February, building to greater frequency as spring approaches. Is there a more sensible way to intro and build the vo2 system?

11ring

I split the standard 6*5 workout as i had trouble completing the fourth set, with a rest i can do 6 sets.

Alex Simmons

6 sets or 6 intervals per set? If this applies to 6 intervals then you're likely doing them too hard.

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