Evangelical Disconnect

bkaapcke

Some friends and I were talking about how we don't really follow all of the rules, and in fact, selectively choose which ones to ignore. One of the participants was a bible thumper of the Evanglical stripe. His comment was; "I'm still a sinner, but I know I am forgiven". Whooaa. This just about knocked me over, because there it was. The total disconnect from reality that characterizes many christians.

This is why they can keep a straight face while participating in the African Genocide Project. They know in advance that they won't go to hell. So they don't care if there are unanticipated negative consequences arising from their actions. They can lay that off on the unfortunate victims. It's the mother of all cop-outs. Think about it, these people are really dangerous. bk

janiejones

I agree with you.

limerickman

It's a feature of the reformed churches, that there is no clear policy/line with regard to teaching/rules.
Almost all of the reformed churches differ : look at the issue of women priests for example.
The Anglicans have split because of the issue of women priests, for example, whereas other reformed churches will not allow the ordination of women in their churches.
Dogma in these churches is increasingly a reference point for debate, rather than an expression of belief/faith.

From my limited knowledge of the Evangelical movement, these systems of beliefs are even more diverse.
What may be a tenet of faith in one strain of the movement, may not even apply in another part of that same broad movement.

A lot of the monotheistic systems of belief (Christianity/Judaism/Islam) have different strands of emphasis within their own faith.
Sunni/Shia in Islam for example.
However the diversity of views within the broad "Protestant/Evangelical" strain of Christianity is more diverse than within either Judaism or Islam.

It's an interesting discussion - I watched an interview recently where a Catholic theologian made (what i thought) was an excellent point.
If Islam, for example, had a Holy See, which set down clear and unambiguous teachings based on one interpretation of that faith, it might help to solve problems besetting the world.
For example, if an Islamic Holy See stated unequivocally that the Koran teaches that it is wrong to kill others, this might take away support for those who use Islam to commit murder.
(The theologian in question wasn't singling out Islam, by the way).
The theologian suggested that it was this movement away from the Holy See by Martin Luther and others in the 15th century, which has led to the existence and growth of the Protestant/Evangelical movement.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

bkaapcke

What is becoming quite clear to me is that christlianity is for people who can't handle the ugly reality of death. Many cling to, nay, psychologically need, a socially approved cop-out to live by. The notion that "one is saved" apparently fills the bill quite well.

The tough part comes when the rest of us have to live with their often dysfunctional responses to social problems. Not to mention their blindness to any problems within their own house. We are getting real tired of this. bk

Cycler6n

I know that I'm saved because of the blood of Jesus Christ, and just because I am saved doesn't mean that I'm going to stop sinning overnight, I'm still human, do I want to sin, no, do I want to stop, yes, but I can't, I'm still human, God knows that. Nobodys perfect on earth, but that isn't an excuse to sin. Was the fellow you were talking about saying its okay to sin? If so that is wrong. I'm not saved just because I'm afraid of death, no, I want to be saved so I sin less with God's help. And no, I can't do "what i want now because I'll be forgiven no matter what", it says right in the Bible that you'll reep what you sough (sorry for mispelling:P) meaning pretty much that what goes around comes around.

__________________
“(Training) doesn't get easier; you just get faster”
-Greg Lemond

limerickman

Christianity isn't the only religion which holds that there is an afterlife.
Judaism/Islam hold that there is an afterlife.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

bkaapcke

There you have it, the 'knowing'. The disconnect, the permission to turn a blind eye to the unintended consequences of ones actions. Nevermind that 'abstinence only' sex education leads to more pregnancies and abortions. Nevermind that telling Africans that condom use is a sin or that the condoms are tainted with Aids. Why, it only leads to more AIDS. It only leads to the earthly punishment for sin that is the true, unstated goal, of much christilan action. Yet, all undertaken under the ruse of 'doing gods work'.

Really, it's time y'all got off everyones sex practices. First, it's none of your business, and second, most christians don't practice what the leaders preach. So, there is no credibility anyway.

It is time christians admitted to being part of the problem, because they are. But as long as they subscribe to the cop-out of already bieng saved, that won't happen. bk

janiejones

I noted that I agree with you - but I want to make it clear that I agree with you to the extent that certain attitudes like the one you mention can be dangerous - but those attitudes are no different from your above quote - discrimination is discrimination.

How are Christians doing any worse in the world than your blatant discrimination of those who hold a particular belief, the world is messed up by intolerance and you are doing the same as those you complain about - would you say the same thing about Muslims or Jews, probably not.

Billsworld

Ahh you almost came clean....This is a pro gay anti Christian rant

bkaapcke

Limerickman, I know most, if not all other religions have some kind of afterlife. You couldn't sell a religion without one. However, militant christianity is what's going on around here and I was just taken aback by the "knowing I'm forgiven" approach.
They are smug in their 'knowing' yet I find that if you press on their beliefs pretty hard, they don't add up. bk

limerickman

Bk, I take the point that you're making.

If that is the case - that people are doing what they're doing on the basis that they'll get forgiven in the end, because they recant - those people aren't following the tenets of the faith that they profess to believe in.

Forgiveness isn't solely premised upon a person saying that they're sorry.
They have to be sincerely sorry for what they have done.

And I'd go further : if they were truly sorry, their consciences would have "kicked in" as soon as they started to behave in the way, that they have.
They would have desisted in acting that way, if they were truly sorry.

Just my two cents worth.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

wolfix

Militant christianity? Where? I live near the Bible Belt and I do not see any. I do see them becoming involved in political actions to have their canidate represent their way of thinking.

I have been around many "born again" individuals and I do not see that "smugness" as even a common trait.


What I do see is a very well organized group of people who work at achieving the lifestyle they want. No different then a handful of gays who run around with their strange sense of pride.

__________________
"I rule my world with a cellphone."

Bro Deal

Flip on Faux News sometime and watch Bush and his crusade against Islam.

It is very much different. Evangelical christians define "achieving the lifestyle they want" as restricting the rights of others to achieve the lifestyles they want.

In the latest news, conservative loons in West Virginia are attempting to ban Pat Conroy's books.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

limerickman

Bro/Wolf : you've both got me stumped.
What does "achieve a lifetsyle that they want", mean??

I've never heard of this.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.