Evangelical Disconnect

garage sale GT

He used the word "crusade". That settles it, I guess. Seems you're not very sparing with the hatred, reason or no reason. What will you blame on fundamentalists next?

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Your mouthwash ain't makin' it.

garage sale GT

Was it because they feel he went to war in order to persecute Muslims, though? I don't think so. The point is that the Iraq war is not entirely germane to the subject at hand, not whether religious leaders like it.

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Your mouthwash ain't makin' it.

garage sale GT

Hmmm......totalitarian dictator.....police state....lets his people starve so he could acquire/develop nuclear weapons....NOPE! no evil there at all.

No comparison to Hitler either!

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Your mouthwash ain't makin' it.

garage sale GT

How many senators from the left like Hillary voted to approve the war?

In light of that, how do you justify your claim that it's all a fundamentalist conspiracy?

We haven't even lost the war yet and already you're looking for scapegoats. Next you'll be holding a putsch in a beer hall.

Must be easier than looking in the mirror.

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Your mouthwash ain't makin' it.

TheDarkLord

Com'on, you know that the invasion of Iraq was not for the noble cause of "liberation of Iraqi people". If so, then there are several other countries which should have been invaded by now. But I agree with you that the issue is more political than religious.

limerickman

So why did you feel the need to introduce the Iraq War in to the discussion.
Here's what you posted only two days ago










And you're entitled to think whatever you choose.

My point was that the Christian moral authorities like John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI, the Methodist Bishops of the USA and Dr Rowan Williams Archbishop of Canterbury - all Christian leaders - have unequivocally condemned George "Born Again" Bush on Iraq.

For someone who claims to be Christian, I would have assumed that you
also condemn Bush?

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

garage sale GT

I was referring to North Korea, not Iraq.

Bro Deal said Bush and his supporters think they "...are fighting an axis of evil. They have even given the evil doers a cute name, so they can pretend they are fighting a modern day equivalent of Hitler."

I merely wanted to point out that the term "axis of evil" is not about Islam, and it is not about made-up, imaginary evil.

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Your mouthwash ain't makin' it.

garage sale GT

You lost me there, guy. Are you toying with me by pretending not to understand?

When I called bro deal to task for criticizing what he calls "Bush's crusade against Islam", hadn't he already introduced the war?

I was unaware that you people do not know Iraq was a secularized, tolerant society (strictly religiously speaking of course) and had large populations of Christians and Zoroastrians who were allowed to practice openly.

So, even when I commented on Bro Deal's remark, I wasn't talking about the war. You may have felt I was talking about the war, but you were wrong.

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Your mouthwash ain't makin' it.

Crankyfeet

The good and evil of history are decided by who wins the war and gets to write the report...

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garage sale GT

Kim Jong Il says thank you but there has not yet been a war over his nuclear program.

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Your mouthwash ain't makin' it.

garage sale GT

Guess what? Saddam was not an islamo-fascist, just a brutal dictator in his own special, highly secular way. You might be blurring two different issues together there.

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Your mouthwash ain't makin' it.

limerickman

You're being, specious.
Bro deal did not refer to Iraq.
He made a general cooment about Islam.

You made a specific comment about Iraq two days ago.






No one here made any comments about Iraq being secularised/sectarian.

Incidentally I agree that Iraq was a secularised country, as you say.
Which makes it all the more confusing as to why George Bush, would invade a secularised country on the basis that it contained Islamic fascists (Bush's words not mine).

However I refer to the point again.
You claim to be a christian.
Therefore as a christian - do you support the condemnation of the Bush made by John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI, the Methodist Bishops of the USA and Dr Rowan Williams Archbishop of Canterbury.
You being a christian and all that?

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Hypnospin

as in the invasion and continued occupation and assualt on iraq.
"in order for good people to perpetrate killing, religion must be invoked"
(paraphrased, quote)

as for "should have been invaded" as you state here, think about it, is not any act of war an attack against the people ultimately?

should not a nation and it's peoples be allowed the freedom to develop of their own organic processes?

for if not, on who's behalf would the invaders really be fighting for?

look at it this way, the country in which you live, if an invading force were to attack and occupy would you support this?

perhaps be you would be expected to throw roses and wave their flag, allow your economy to be confiscated, your currency to be voided, replaced by one which states "in god we trust", worship their deity structure in support of the invasion and it's paradigm?

if this is not right for one nation why is it for another you may ask...rationalizing comes into play here.

oh yeah, "our way" is in the right, at least in the light of our belief system and world view, which includes religious practice such as church and state affiliation.

in this example, there may well be convictions your country needs freedom of one kind, and this then should be imposed in the name of all that is holy in some sense of sociological belief system. do not count out the allmighty dollar as being intrinsic to this equation.

under objective scrutiny, the true mentality of the us becomes obvious in these matters.

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"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so must we think anew and act anew"
Abraham Lincoln, in his address to congress dec. 1st, 1861

Hypnospin

concerning your mention here of the subject of secularism, this is debatable, as saddam spent lavishly on the construction of mosques, esp. in the latter years.

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"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so must we think anew and act anew"
Abraham Lincoln, in his address to congress dec. 1st, 1861