Evangelical Disconnect

bkaapcke

Bro Deal really hit it on the head. Religious loons gettig upset because many of us have not chosedn to live like religious loons. To me, it's this simple; to the extent christian morals are stricter than civil law, living by them is voluntary. If you don't like abortions, don't have one. If you disagree with birth control, don't use it. If you don't like same sex marriage, marry someone of the opposite sex. Instruct your wives and daughters to do the same. If they listen, fine. If they don't, too bad.

And answer me this; If homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality. Albeit the more popular one. Why does one confer extra rights and the other doesn't? See if you can answer within the context of "Equal Protection of the Laws". We wouldn't want you throwing the constitution out the window. bk

Bro Deal

To those who want to live in a theocracy, they are one and the same.

I agree that it is a very bad thing. It is the ultimate result of people who value style over substance. In the case of politics it has boiled down to electing a person based upon his media image with no regard as to his competence. It was bad enough with an amoral scumbag like Clinton. Dubya, a moron who is a religious zealot, is even worse.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Bro Deal

Oh, you poor soul. The government took some money in the form of taxes and spent it in ways you don't like. Your quibble about tax money spent on birth control is minor compared to the tax money spent to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis. Welcome to the real world, where the choices a democratic society makes are not always agreeable.

Translation: "God damn those libs; I can't discriminate against the niggers anymore. The country has gone to hell."

You gotta love how the religious loons define being oppressed as having their ability to oppress others restricted.

Do you mean all the major ones who were Unitarians or do you mean the ones who came to this country to avoid the oppression that the religious right of today wants to foist on America?

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Colorado Ryder

This is a list of all the signers of the Constitution, Declaration, Articles of Confederation, or were the first representatives or senators. I sse only 2 Unitarians. Which major ones were unitarians? Perhaps you meant Deists?

Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers# of
Founding
Fathers% of
Founding
FathersEpiscopalian/Anglican8854.7%Presbyterian3018.6%Congregationalist2716.8%Quaker74.3%D utch Reformed/German Reformed63.7%Lutheran53.1%Catholic31.9%Huguenot31.9%Unitarian31.9%Meth odist21.2%Calvinist10.6%

The table pasted like shite. Here is the link.
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Foundi...s_Religion.html

Bro Deal

Unitarians and Deists.

Thomas Jefferson
John Adams
Thomas Paine
George Washington
James Madison
Ben Franklin

Which ones were "Hard core Bible thumping, evengelical types," as Bill puts it?

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Billsworld

You got it wrong again. I celebrate your ability to live your life and raise your family as you see fit. The values of the left and right shouldnt be taught by anything funded by the govt. The Govt. shouldnt have a radio station, it shouldnt fund and or decide what is art, and it shouldnt decide what is normal sex or take it upon themselves to teach it.. Unfortunately The left is choosing to define and indoctrinate children at an early age to believe the values they embrace. If you find Christian values offensive that is fine. At the moment they are not taught in public schools. On the other hand homosexual values and very advanced heteroexual subjectsare being on forced on kids in public schools. Your Marxist agnostic religion is being forced on everyone. If you take a moment to look at who is really forcing their beliefs on soceity it isnt hard to see who that is. Hey BTW thanks for the implication of me being a racist. Very consistant with the left...you even used the "N" word for shock value

limerickman

I would dispute your making an equivalence between the amorality of Clinton and the amorality of Bush.

What Clinton may or may not have done in his private life ...is just that, private.

What Bush has done in his public life and the loss of thousands of lives through his amoral policies is beneath contempt.

A politician has to be judged on his public persona.
If we start judging politicians on thier private/personal personas - then that is a slippery road.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Billsworld

You need to do some better reasearch. Both Franklin ad Jefferson were in favor of the national seal being Moses leading the Isrealites into the promised land. Dont think for a minute that they share any of the values that you do.

limerickman

It's ironic.

All those who say "the goverment shouldn't be interferring in XYZ......".
I've been closely following the credit crunch debacle and comments in the wake of this debacle.

All those "free marketeers", all those people who say "let capitalism separate the wheat from the chaff"......are now looking to the State to bail out those very institutions who operate on the capitalistic, reduce goverment interference.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Billsworld

NOT.. I will be happy to buy the forclosed houses and make some$$. I am going to an auction in the morning. Its the left that is pleading with the morgage companies to rewrite the subprime morgages. I think it is a fine idea, but they are under no legal or moral obligation to do so. Too bad for all Funds that are heavy into them. .. I am also fine with free markets and the freedom for Bro deal to put his 12 year old on birth controll. Just do it on his time with his money.

limerickman

Actually Bill, you're wrong.

The most averacious capitalist orgs have asked central goverment to bail them out.

These same companies who previously stuck to the mantra "less goverment/less regulation" have now turned to the very thing they opposed in order to bail them out.

And as regards buying foreclosed property................we don't operate that way either over here.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

wolfix

Sadly, that is what has become the American way. People, and businesses make bad decisions and then ask to be bailed out. The sub-prime market market shows that capitolism is working in this case perfectly. Bad decisions by greedy consumers and bad decisions by greedy lenders. Bad things happen to that group of decision makers. That provides opportunity for the capitolist that has made good decisions to enhance their portfolio. Pure capitolism. If the government steps in, then the system continues to be broken.

Not all "free marketeers" are asking for a government bailout in the sub-prime scandal. Very few are. "free marketeers" are waiting for the property to hit the streets with a "FOR SALE" sign in the yard.

__________________
"I rule my world with a cellphone."

Billsworld

Who? Other than the lenders themselves. I hear nothing but Governors and Congresmen suggesting another bailout.Some are calling it racist to foreclose on houses in minority neighborhoods Suprise suprise......... I am sure companies such as Countywide are crying for help because they are on the hook for the losses . BTW I would much prefer to be building new stuff than searching the countyside and dropping into dozens of town halls to find out about back taxes and water bills from some poor sod that lost his house because he took a no money down loan at 2%. I am glad to see that you can in some part see the connection between ecenomic freedom or the lack thereof and the topic at hand. It appears however you prefer to stand with the morons that think it is a fine idea to dispense birth controll pills to 12 year old children without parental consent, and teach 6 year olds why Danny has two daddys . How does that wash in your country?

Bro Deal

I guess I was absent the day they forced homosexual values on all the other students. Or maybe I was there but it just didn't happen. What exactly are the "homosexual values" that are supposedly being forced on the kids?


You were the one complaining about the libs calling people like yourself a rascist and a homophobe.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates