ice axe length

Rob Devereux

"Rob G" <robkgraham@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1195076361.712010.140190@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Nov, 09:16, Peter Clinch <p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
> Having been in a situation last winter where I was quite happily
> walking along this broad ridge (Ben a' Ghlo), the descent suddenly
> steepened and the snow slope I was on became convex, and I became
> aware that I wasn't as stable or sure of my footing as I would like.
> I didn't change to the axe because of the hassle, and the ice and snow
> squall at that particular time, and in thinking about it afterwards I
> realise that that was raising the hazard level. There is a danger I
> now see of going to far with the poles only and then losing it, or
> having considerable difficulty on a dangerous slope changing over.
> Something to be watch and be aware of.

I agree entirely but this raises another issue which is perception of risk.
Clearly your perception of the risk at the time you mention was different
from the one that you had later on reflection. Interestingly I have often
found that the mind can play tricks on you as to how difficult or easy
something can be and your mental condition and other factors come into play
a lot more - I remember walking in Picos and because of having bad exposure
at one point on the walk, it clouded my normal calm outlook on slopes for
all the rest(so that what I would normally happily cope with, I felt fearful
of). I am sure we can all relate to times when we have ventured places and
done things which in hindsight werent the most sensible course of action and
hopefully we learn from those. I guess that we have to be grateful for all
the times we come back ok and make sure we have the best training to hand to
know what to do if the situation doesnt favour us.

Rob

Peter Clinch

Rob Devereux wrote:

> In the same way, you'd jam your
> feet, hands and any other part of your body into anything or grab anything
> that would arrest your fall/slide.

The recommended technique is get into a push-up position, head up the
slope, which will (so it's said...) help dig your toes in to slow you up.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Mike Clark

In message <1194947619.449458.322130@v2g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>
Rob G <robkgraham@btinternet.com> wrote:

[snip]
> I'm of an age where my first axe was long enough to be a walking
> stick. As soon as I progressed to ice climbing in the early 60's, it
> and it's companion were cut down to 55cms. I only walk now and I take
> one of these and that is perfectly adequate for my 5ft 10 height.

I'm about 5'7 and I started off with a longer walking axe of about 65cm
but always found it awkward and was much happier when I changed over to
a shorter mountaineering axe of 50-55cm.

>
> An axe is not a walking stick. It's main purpose for a walker is to
> arrest slips - these are going to occur on steep ground and as the axe
> must always be uphill of you, a shorter axe is easier to handle
> because of the slope.

The axe should be used to prevent a slip if at all possible. Arrest is a
last resort.

>
> It is interesting to interrelate walking poles and axes. There was an
> extensive discussion on this about a year ago here. I'm only a fairly
> recent convert to poles and do find them useful in most snow
> conditions, but they must never be considered as a replacement for an
> axe as a safety device - there is no way that you can reliably stop a
> slide if you have a pole strapped to each wrist.

I ski-tour and find myself on quite steep slopes with poles in both
hands and a pair of skis on my feet. However when crossing slopes I
seldom have my poles strapped to my wrist because one hand has to be on
the top of the lower pole and the other hand on a lower grip of the
upper pole. If you look at ski-touring poles you will see that they
usually are modified or customised with a grip or tape about 1/3 of
their length so that you can adapt to different angles of slope. If you
start to slide the best thing is to discard one pole and use the other
for an arrest. If practised it can work, but not as good as using an
axe. Sometimes on steep icy slopes I'll swap to a ski-touring ice-axe
(usually of a lighter weight construction than a mountaineering axe) in
the uphill hand and a pole in the downhill hand.

> The danger I have perceived is continuing on with the poles onto
> ground where an axe is the necessary safety precaution - particularly
> when descending.

Agreed. When walking with an axe it is best to stow it (if
required) between your shoulder blades and the rucksack so that it is
very easy to take out with one hand and without stopping and removing
your sack. That way you are less tempted to carry on just a little
further without. If you use this method you'll notice that the ice-axe
loops on the rucksack are not needed.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"