Page 2 - Power Quest 4 the 2busy

20-12.-2007, 08:36 AM

#16

musher

Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Cascades-Wenatchee WA

Posts: 124

Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopride

Last night I pounded out 2 x 20 indoors at around 9-10 est. I Haven't had time to download my PT, but the first interval looked to be AP 250 and the second 244 with a five minute rest. When I download, I will confirm. I have been trying to maintain as close as possible to my last hour TT outdoors (7/07), which was 258. I do lose a bit indoors. Generally, I do lose a bit starting my workout so late and after dinner. Also pretty stressful day overall, so not that bad given all the circumstances.

I will keep posting my progress to stay motivated and obtain input. I am planning on lifting tonite (upper body "beach muscle" workout) and doing another 2 x 20 on Thursday. Hopefully, weather will allow a nice long loop outdoors on Saturday. I think I can keep this up for another 6 weeks and then I am going to run another hour TT

Hi,great idear to post your "Training Log".

It is the "consistancy" & "Volume of Exercice" at 70% to 90% of (Vo2max ) in training to have the "Biggest Long Term Improuvement" on your " Progress".

Improuving your subtainable Power at LT are a matter of "Accumulating Time at a Given Intensity".

It takes 3 weeks for your body to adapt to a type of w/o(training) so , vary the time of interval (ex. day1:1x30' at LT + L3/ day2:2x25' at LT+L3/ day3:3x15' at 103%/105% + L3 )

TRY different time/volume/intensity.I find doing longer intervals (30' -45'- 60' ) are better for inprouvement of FTP ,: ex : it TAKES (3'/4' for lactate to rise) , it takes me 5' to get used to the pace ,and i suffer for the first 10' to 12' (this is the time where my braine is telling me to stop stop ...) after my legs feel great ,so why stopping ? ,and also it takes 15' for my HR to be in LT .
Try training in block: L4 -30' to 60' for 3 days -recover 2 days and do L4 2 or 3 days with some L3

, ansd 1 day every week/10days try 1x 60' to 90' non stop at 85% +....

The premier benefit of increasing training volume (at LT) is an increased capacity for Mitochondrial respiration,which, is imperative to improuvements in Lactate Threshold

.It importante to get a good Volume betwen TEMPO( L3)& ( SWEET-SPOT) and Pure Threshold work each week.

I hope it help. Ride hard, Musher

21-12.-2007, 06:53 AM

#17

kopride

Registered User

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 426

Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy

Quote:

Originally Posted by musher

.It importante to get a good Volume betwen TEMPO( L3)& ( SWEET-SPOT) and Pure Threshold work each week.

I hope it help. Ride hard, Musher

Great suggestions. Last night was 2 x 20 at 262, even after a rough few weeks at work, so you might be right that I am aclimating to the 20 minute invervals and need to change it up a bit. The nice thing about the 2 x 20s so far is that it allowed me to compare apples with apples from week to week, but that is probably the draw back as well. On my next one hour tt, my body will be saying "where's the break?" after the first 20 minutes.

21-12.-2007, 07:05 AM

#18

daveryanwyoming

Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006

Posts: 1,383

Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopride

... On my next one hour tt, my body will be saying "where's the break?" after the first 20 minutes.

I agree with you about the week to week feedback, there's a lot of motivation in being able to objectively track your progress. But your point above is good as well. You might want to think about doing hard 2x20s some days and backing off a bit and working on extending time on other days. I find it easier mentally and I agree, it's a good idea to train yourself to hold steady power for longer than 20 minutes at a shot.

One approach is to pick a power a bit below what you hold for 20 minutes say 240 - 250 watts at your current levels and hold it for half an hour then shoot for 45 minutes the following week. When you can stretch it to 50 minutes or an hour it's time to bump up to a bit higher power. It's another way to gauge progress and helps build the mental toughness to ride a steady power for longer. Rick M. got me thinking along these lines a while back and it fits really well with the idea of working down in intensity but up in duration during your weekly training blocks.

-Dave

21-12.-2007, 07:42 AM

#19

kopride

Registered User

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 426

Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming

Sounds like a plan. I will start mixing in some 1 x 30; 1x15 sessions; and then a 1 x 45; and a 1 x 10, till the end of January. I still plan on a healthy amount of the "bread and butter" 2 x 20s as well. I don't plan on really mixing in intervals under 10 minutes until February, except to break up boredom from time to time. I also like 2 or 3 sets of under/over intervals: (1 min over 115% / 2 min under 85%) of about 12 -15 minutes as February comes into view. Those are great, there is no real rest period during the under and it is a good way of starting to ease into the higher level intervals without really knocking off the FTP plan.

21-12.-2007, 09:05 AM	#20
Piotr Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Draper, Utah Posts: 406	Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy I have a workout that I like to do to break up the monotony of doing only 2 x 20 min or Tempo rides. I'll ride Tempo for 60-90 min with 5 min FTP intervals thrown in every 15 min. IOW, 10 min L3, 5 min L4, 10 min L3, 5 min L4, etc. Having to recover from an 100% FTP effort by riding Tempo is an additional training benefit. It's more interesting than typical Tempo or an even intensity Sweet Spot session. Here's an example. Another kind of SST I do is simply to start at L3 and gradually increase the speed until finally doing the last 5-10 min at FTP. Last weekend I stretched it to 2 hrs - TSS of 175. __________________ blog

05-01.-2008, 07:18 AM	#21
kopride Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 426	Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy Interesting holiday period. On 12/23 I did a 1 x 30 of 267 av, and then 2 x 10s at about the same, which I was able to do with surprising ease. Since that strong session, I have been struggling to do 2 x 20s at 260 plus and my intervals have been more inconsistent. Usually, I am considerably stronger on the first one (255 +) with numbers in the 240s for the second one. Last night, it was 1 x 20 at 262 and then the second closer to 248. Today, my legs feel pretty whipped. It appears as I am seeing some trainer fatigue, and that I should start staying consistently in the mid 250s for 2 x 20s before I start to move to keeping it above 260. It just seems to take to much out of me from session to session. I am going to try a 1 x 45 tommorow at around 250 and see how that feels.

05-01.-2008, 08:39 AM

#22

daveryanwyoming

Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006

Posts: 1,383

Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopride

...It appears as I am seeing some trainer fatigue, and that I should start staying consistently in the mid 250s for 2 x 20s before I start to move to keeping it above 260. It just seems to take to much out of me from session to session. I am going to try a 1 x 45 tommorow at around 250 and see how that feels.

You might try that 1x45 even a bit lower like 240 or 230 watts. You don't need to go to 90% of FTP or beyond on every workout or even most workouts. You get really good training benefit at 80-85% of FTP and it tends to be a lot easier mentally and easier to do later in the training week when you start feeling cumulative fatigue.

Assuming your FTP is somewhere around 270 watts(just a swag from your post above) you could get really good training benefit with some long intervals down to 220 watts or so (~ 81%).One workout I like to do later in the week is to start around 80% of FTP and then bring it up a few watts every 5 minutes or so for a half hour or more. If I'm really feeling it, I'll drop it back down in 5 minute blocks, pyramid style to finish around the same power I started or if I'm feeling better than expected I'll keep bumping it up till the half hour or 45 minutes is up.

Anyway there are a lot of games you can play with this stuff like the cool block workout Piotr suggests above and a bit of variety can keep it interesting.Just don't hesitate to work the mid to lower end of SST, driving all your efforts up against your personal best records is a recipe for burnout and inconsistent long term training.

-Dave

05-01.-2008, 08:55 AM

#23

kopride

Registered User

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 426

Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming

You don't need to go to 90% of FTP or beyond on every workout or even most workouts. You get really good training benefit at 80-85% of FTP and it tends to be a lot easier mentally and easier to do later in the training week when you start feeling cumulative fatigue.

Assuming your FTP is somewhere around 270 watts(just a swag from your post above) you could get really good training benefit with some long intervals down to 220 watts or so (~ 81%).
Just don't hesitate to work the mid to lower end of SST, driving all your efforts up against your personal best records is a recipe for burnout and inconsistent long term training.

-Dave

Great advice as always. Almost gave up on this forum due to the incredible spamming that has been going on. Given my time constraints, I try and push the intensity level up to compensate for the frequency. As you can see, diminishing returns set in with that strategy as well. No question, at my levels, there is a huge difference between longer intervals at 220-240 and 240-265, both in recovery and in pure mental fatigue in just pushing through. I need to realize that I need to just make the time and that there are limits to trying to overcompensate by making every session a wall crasher. I like your pyramid idea, of teasing up and down through the full range of the sweet spot, over a longer interval. Makes a lot more sense than ripping strong for the first 20, and then dying during the last ten minutes of the second. It would also help if the weather would break enough to squeeze in some longer Tempo rides outdoors on the weekends, or some mtb rides. I can deal with the cold, and I can deal with the rain, but I have no interest in riding in cold rain, and that's what we have been seeing. I can't imagine anyone from Wyoming is going to be all too sympathetic on this issue, but it is nice to get outside to break up the monotony.

05-01.-2008, 08:58 AM

#24

daveryanwyoming

Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006

Posts: 1,383

Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopride

....I can't imagine anyone from Wyoming is going to be all too sympathetic on this issue, but it is nice to get outside to break up the monotony.

No worries, that's what skiing is for

05-01.-2008, 12:32 PM

#25

Frigo's Luggage

Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006

Posts: 1,176

Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopride

Goals: increase power, stay ahead of the recreational group I ride with, ease back into racing this spring after lengthy lay off, fight off the malaise of middle age, keep weight down, improve hill climbing.

If you are looking to ease back into racing you might want to do the nightime points races in Fairmont Park starting in February. Have you ever done them? What category will you be racing?

__________________
We are all made of stars.

08-01.-2008, 03:42 AM

#26

kopride

Registered User

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 426

Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frigo's Luggage

If you are looking to ease back into racing you might want to do the nightime points races in Fairmont Park starting in February. Have you ever done them? What category will you be racing?

No, send me a link, that would be a great start. Is it a cyclocross race or part of the MASS series? I don't see it on the USCF website. I assume that I will have to jump in as a Cat 5, which is pretty scary.

Most of my real competitive "racing" was duathalons. Pre-kids, I also did a lot of the Saturday morning TTs on the drive, and a lot of fast group rides (Vino Velo, Bulldog, etc.) leaving from CC where I lived at the time There used to be a nice group of duatholons you could do locally, including a series at the Navy Yard, Cooper River Park, Wilmington and a bunch of us out of a local health club did them with an eye more to beating each other than any one else. But running takes too much toll on me lately; hence my return to almost exclusively cycling, and it looks like I either enter the MASS series on the mtb, which is only a secondary activity for me, or get serious and get a license. There are some local clubs with a winter training for racers rides which look interesting to get a handle about where the best place to ease back in. For the last ten years or so, it has been fast recreational riding done with a bunch of other hackers with some regular charity rides being fairly standard. If you are looking to introduce an older newbie to racing,and are local, I would apreciate any asistance offered.

08-01.-2008, 11:56 AM	#27
Frigo's Luggage Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,176	Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy During February the nightime bulldog ride turns into a points race on a one kilometer loop in Fairmount Park near the Strawberry Mansion resevoir. Sounds insane. I mean who would race on open roads at night during February in that neighborhood? However, it is usually pretty safe as far as these things go and it is a blast. It is easily my favorite event of the season. The group meets at 6:30 at the bulldog and rides up to the course together. It is a points race with a sprint every five laps and regrouping after every sprint. There is a small ring restriction during February and the big ring comes out in March. So, it is a really good way to ease back into racing, even if you are out of shape like me. It is not a USCF sanctioned event. Here is the link: http://www.quakercitywheelmen.org/trainingrides.asp. Of course the lawyers would have me say something like "This isn't a QCW event and it is just coincidence that people show up every year." PM me if you are looking to hook up with a club. We've got a few riders in the KOP area and have regular training rides from the bulldog every Sunday at 8:45 during the offseason. __________________ We are all made of stars.

09-01.-2008, 02:40 AM

#28

kopride

Registered User

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 426

Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frigo's Luggage

During February the nightime bulldog ride turns into a points race on a one kilometer loop in Fairmount Park near the Strawberry Mansion resevoir. Sounds insane. I mean who would race on open roads at night during February in that neighborhood? However, it is usually pretty safe as far as these things go and it is a blast. It is easily my favorite event of the season.

The group meets at 6:30 at the bulldog and rides up to the course together. It is a points race with a sprint every five laps and regrouping after every sprint. There is a small ring restriction during February and the big ring comes out in March. So, it is a really good way to ease back into racing, even if you are out of shape like me.

It is not a USCF sanctioned event. Here is the link: http://www.quakercitywheelmen.org/trainingrides.asp. Of course the lawyers would have me say something like "This isn't a QCW event and it is just coincidence that people show up every year."

PM me if you are looking to hook up with a club. We've got a few riders in the KOP area and have regular training rides from the bulldog every Sunday at 8:45 during the offseason.

I did drop you a PM. You are calling me on my now third annual "I am going to start racing this season" Resolution so I guess it is past time to actually follow through and jump in. I am not sure that February racing on black ice in the dark is the best place to "jump in" to the sport of road racing but I have no real excuse why I should skip the Great Valley Crits in the summer. And yes, if the KOP area guys are training out here, I dropped my email on the PM, whcih you can share with any club memeber looking for a training partner. My new office is a great staging area for luch time or morning rides leaving from or near VF Park and the bike paths for other folks in our situation. Suffice it to say that my first wife never really enjoyed me leaving at 6 am for work and then coming home at 8 twice or (three times) after riding, plus 10 hours per weekend. And with duatholons, you have to leave time to run as well. I actually like my second wife so I am trying to train (and race) without creating too much hardship or sticking her with four kids alone for too long a time. She tolerated several years of youth wrestling coaching, which I dropped this year. But the key components of my training is going to have to be off hour trainer rides, commuting, or lunch time rides, and keeping door to door weekend riding down to 3 hours or less. The GV crits look like they could be a great way to check out the local racing scene without having to buy another woman a house and give her more than half my stuff.

10-01.-2008, 10:04 PM	#29
Sillyoldtwit Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: IN PEACE AND QUIET Posts: 1,338	Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy Hello! __________________

11-01.-2008, 01:21 AM	#30
kopride Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 426	Re: Power Quest 4 the 2busy The past week, I continued with my plan to stay in the sweet spot as opposed to trying to pin it to the 98% of my FTP every 2 x 20. Saturday was an interval session where I did 2 x 20 but started the first interval at 230, then increased 5 watts every five minutes so that I finished the first one at 250. On the second, I started at 240 and worked my way up to 260 on 5 minute bumps. Sunday was a 90 minute outside ride (55 degrees in SE PA) with a buddy where I tried not to look to closely at the PM and just enjoyed the great weather and the rare opportunity to ride without booties and a face warmer in january. Tuesday was another 2 x 20, with the first interval at 235 and the second at 245. Again, I am trying to recharge a bit after spending the first 6 weeks of this quest trying to best my average from the prior session. I am also trying to get the last of the colds and stuffiness out of me that I have been fighting the past few weeks. Monday and Wednesday were vanity upper body lifting sessions. Today, I am planning another set of those sweet spot intervals similar to what I did Saturday. Again, the goal is 275 at a February 1 hour tt, and 300 by mid summer. I can't let an old man like Tyson reach 300 before I do, but it looks like he might be more committed. Finally, I hope everyone is enjoying the new Pumas Prada Addidas that they have been ordering from our spammer. After I jump off the trainer, the first think I want to do is slip into my new Nike Air Shox that I bought as a Hot Sell.

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