Salt Tablets?

Peter Clinch

John Dawson wrote:

> I thought the reason was obvious. You said the notice was about the
> dangers of dehydration.

The main thrust was indeed that you should stay hydrated. However, the
point about salt tablets was a blanket point, which would include those
hikers who *do* stay hydrated.

> Taking salt when dehydrated can only further
> increase the salt content in the blood. I would have thought eating a
> tin of anchovies, a salty food you are appearing to suggest, would do
> far more damage in that situation than a one gramme salt tablet.

The point about a /relatively/ salty food is that the salt hits the
digestion process in concentrations it is used to and can deal with
reasonably easily.

> Taking salt to "combat" dehydration was never what this thread was
> about. On the occasions I've suffered cramp there was no question of
> my being dehydrated.

Taking salt is done to satisfy a need for salt. The US Park Services
signs were saying not to use salt tablets to do that. I suspect they
have their reasons. Gordon pointed out the army have given up on salt
tablets. I suspect they have their reasons. I passed on the
information as it seemed apposite, not to tell you about dehydration.

> BTW I believe I've had a moment of inspiration this morning. The next
> time I'm in a self-service restaurant I'll pick up half a dozen salt
> sachets. That should be more than adequate. And, they're not tablets
> are they?

No. And if you mix them with other food (like a sandwich) it will
dilute the basic concentration the digestion is faced with. You may not
like salty food, but I suspect you'll actually enjoy a packet of plain
salt even less. I also suspect that, like me, you'll find salty food
much nicer when your body actually needs salt.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Bill Grey

In message <6gl5k3dhb9jbdckckk3t9tcrs28f771bdj@4ax.com>, John Dawson
<dont@even.ask.com> writes
> On the occasions I've suffered cramp there was no question of
>my being dehydrated.

You may not have been thirsty but you could well be sufficiently
dehydrated to cause cramp.
--
Bill Grey

John Dawson

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:31:18 +0000, Peter Clinch
<p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:

>Taking salt is done to satisfy a need for salt. The US Park Services
>signs were saying not to use salt tablets to do that. I suspect they
>have their reasons. Gordon pointed out the army have given up on salt
>tablets. I suspect they have their reasons.

I decided to find out what marathon runners do to survive sodium
depletion eventually keying:
marathon runners "salt packet"
into Google.

I came up with a host of recommendations for their use from runners,
coaches and doctors alike. One said don't bother buying salt tablets,
just get salt packets from a fast-food store. At some marathons they
give salt packets out to the participants before the race and the NY
Times suggested they do so at future NY marathons. This is a quote
from, from Dr. Lewis G. Maharam, Chairman of the Board of Governors,
International Marathon Medical Directors Association.

"Finally, DO THE SALT! This is really key. Get 2 fast food packets
before you get to the start. In the corral, lick 1 packet (you want it
absorbed in your mouth). Halfway through your race, lick the second
packet. The added salt will help you retain your fluid, help stop
cramping and help against salt depletion and hyponatremia."

I'm not a marathon runner, but I do go out for several hours hard
exercise, so the similarities are obvious. May I stress once again
that I am not intending to take one of these unless I actually suffer
from cramp, neither am I going to add salt to my food on the off
chance I'm not getting enough of it anyway.

Now I'm going to watch Dr. Iain Stewart. :-)

John D.
--
John Dawson at home in Kendal, Cumbria.
Lake District Walks Web Pages http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/
Sicilian Volcanoes at http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/sicily/
Pyrenees trek at http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/pyrenees

John Dawson

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:10:28 +0000, Bill Grey
<wdg@graigroad.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <6gl5k3dhb9jbdckckk3t9tcrs28f771bdj@4ax.com>, John Dawson
><dont@even.ask.com> writes
>> On the occasions I've suffered cramp there was no question of
>>my being dehydrated.
>
>You may not have been thirsty but you could well be sufficiently
>dehydrated to cause cramp.

I never mentioned thirst. The best indicator an individual can use is
urine colour.

John D.
--
John Dawson at home in Kendal, Cumbria.
Lake District Walks Web Pages http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/
Sicilian Volcanoes at http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/sicily/
Pyrenees trek at http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/pyrenees

Peter Clinch

John Dawson wrote:

> I'm not a marathon runner, but I do go out for several hours hard
> exercise, so the similarities are obvious. May I stress once again
> that I am not intending to take one of these unless I actually suffer
> from cramp

You might google for doctors' opinions on whether prevention of a
painful condition might just be better than cure...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Bill Grey

In message <obo6k31jf1btlhq6ihp1s8f2dhijksm080@4ax.com>, John Dawson
<dont@even.ask.com> writes
>On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:10:28 +0000, Bill Grey
><wdg@graigroad.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <6gl5k3dhb9jbdckckk3t9tcrs28f771bdj@4ax.com>, John Dawson
>><dont@even.ask.com> writes
>>> On the occasions I've suffered cramp there was no question of
>>>my being dehydrated.
>>
>>You may not have been thirsty but you could well be sufficiently
>>dehydrated to cause cramp.
>
>I never mentioned thirst. The best indicator an individual can use is
>urine colour.
>
>John D.

There's truth in that- so what do you do "I'd better have a pee to see
if I'm dehydrated".. Unnecessary if you occasionally take a drink of
water.
--
Bill Grey

michael k

"John Dawson" <dont@even.ask.com> wrote in message
news:hhtuj3toq5olgokhbbarj47piimf01lskv@4ax.com...
> Occasionally when I go out walking I suffer from cramp in my leg
> muscles. On the most recent occasion I had been out for about five
> hours had consumed plenty of Go electrolyte drink. A packet of salted
> crisps sorted out the problem as it has done many times in the past.
> On one previous occasion I tried a rehydration sachet but this did not
> resolve the problem. It does appear to be a shortage of NaCl. I'm
> going abroad next month on a walking holiday where I won't have access
> to packets of crisps and I thought of taking salt tablets with me for
> such an emergency, at least as a trial. However, I don't seem to be
> able to get any. A local chemist says she can't order them any more.
> There are plenty of websites mentioning runners and cyclists taking
> them, but where do they get them? Any ideas?
>

I gave up taking any hydrating salts years ago. At that time I was doing a
lot of hiking in southern Greece and sweating about 4-5 litres water every
day and feeling paranoid about salt. I stopped taking salt balancing
compounds and made sure I ate a LOT of fruit on the walks (about 5 apples
and 10 tangerines) on a walk. It made me feel a lot better than the salt
and electrolye mixtures I had been taking. Could be you have something else
wrong?

John Dawson

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 19:30:37 -0000, "michael k"
<michaelk@dontspamme.com> wrote:

>
>"John Dawson" <dont@even.ask.com> wrote in message
>news:hhtuj3toq5olgokhbbarj47piimf01lskv@4ax.com...
>> Occasionally when I go out walking I suffer from cramp in my leg
>> muscles. On the most recent occasion I had been out for about five
>> hours had consumed plenty of Go electrolyte drink. A packet of salted
>> crisps sorted out the problem as it has done many times in the past.
>> On one previous occasion I tried a rehydration sachet but this did not
>> resolve the problem. It does appear to be a shortage of NaCl. I'm
>> going abroad next month on a walking holiday where I won't have access
>> to packets of crisps and I thought of taking salt tablets with me for
>> such an emergency, at least as a trial. However, I don't seem to be
>> able to get any. A local chemist says she can't order them any more.
>> There are plenty of websites mentioning runners and cyclists taking
>> them, but where do they get them? Any ideas?
>>
>
>I gave up taking any hydrating salts years ago. At that time I was doing a
>lot of hiking in southern Greece and sweating about 4-5 litres water every
>day and feeling paranoid about salt. I stopped taking salt balancing
>compounds and made sure I ate a LOT of fruit on the walks (about 5 apples
>and 10 tangerines) on a walk. It made me feel a lot better than the salt
>and electrolye mixtures I had been taking. Could be you have something else
>wrong?

Could be but I don't know what. Given I happens only once or twice a
year, and a packet of salted crisps has solved it, I can't see what
else I have the opportunity to consider. I've only recently taken to
using electrolyte drinks and the primary purpose was to give my
drinking water some flavour as I don't much like water on its own.
Tomorrow I'll be taking pomegranite and raspberry fruit drink and a
couple of packets of crisps on my walk.

A few years ago before a medical examination I recorded my entire
consumption of food and drink over a period of a fortnight. After my
list was read at the examination I was told there was nothing wrong
with my diet and there was little they could recommend to improve it.
My diet hasn't changed.

John D.
--
John Dawson at home in Kendal, Cumbria.
Lake District Walks Web Pages http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/
Sicilian Volcanoes at http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/sicily/
Pyrenees trek at http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/pyrenees

Bill Grey

In message <lhpbk3tdj0haipljov9ione846lb5m2rr3@4ax.com>, John Dawson
<dont@even.ask.com> writes
>>Could be you have something else
>>wrong?
>
>Could be but I don't know what.

Hi John - don't answer if you don't want to but are you on medication -
Statins for example?

Simvastatin was prescribed for me andwhether it was that or not I don't
know, but I suffered cramps after a walk on a couple of occasions. My
statins were then changed to Atorvastatin. Hey presto - no more cramp!!

Coincidence or not - who knows ?
--
Bill Grey

John Dawson

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:29:42 +0000, Bill Grey
<wdg@graigroad.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Hi John - don't answer if you don't want to but are you on medication -
>Statins for example?

I'm not on any regular medication. I take the occasional paracetamol
but it's less than once a month. I'm teetotal and don't smoke. I've
had several blood and urine tests in the past year due to a minor
problem which has since disappeared. Nothing unusual was found. When I
get amongst my peers and they talk about their heart problems,
prostate problems, haemorrhoids, aching and replacement joints and the
need for Viagra I'm convinced I belong to a younger generation :-)

John D.
--
John Dawson at home in Kendal, Cumbria.
Lake District Walks Web Pages http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/
Sicilian Volcanoes at http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/sicily/
Pyrenees trek at http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/pyrenees

dino

michael k wrote:
> I stopped taking salt balancing
> compounds and made sure I ate a LOT of fruit on the walks (about 5 apples
> and 10 tangerines) on a walk.

Man but that would create a whole other problem for me!!!!!!

Bob Mannix

"dino" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:5qnq40F111f7uU1@mid.individual.net...
> michael k wrote:
>> I stopped taking salt balancing compounds and made sure I ate a LOT of
>> fruit on the walks (about 5 apples and 10 tangerines) on a walk.
>
> Man but that would create a whole other problem for me!!!!!!

Michael Palin in The Time Bandits - "it's my...problem, I must have fruit!"


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Paul Saunders

Peter Clinch wrote:

>> Like I said, I don't know if any of the health benefits are true or
>> not, but surely it makes sense that unprocessed sea salt is better
>> for you than the processed variety? Same with pretty much all food,
>> unprocessed is healthier.
>
> Up to a point... however, processed salt is crystalline sodium
> chloride,

With additives like iodene (mainly in the US) and anti-caking agents.

> while "natural" salt is crystalline sodium chloride with
> impurites.

With extra *minerals*. I've read that sea salt is filtered to get rid of
other crap.

"However, unrefined sea salt contains many important minerals that regular
iodized table salt does not contain."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_salt

> This is rather different to the case with, say, sugar,
> where refined crystalline sucrose is a rather different prospect for
> your body than sugars occurring in fruit etc.

"[Processed] salt is dried at high temperatures (over 1,200F / 649oC), which
alters the ionic structure of the salt."
http://www.rssl.com/OurServices/Foo...ewsletterID=235

>> All else aside, the sea salt really tastes a lot nicer than the
>> ordinary table salt.
>
> Could be a textural thing.

No, the one I bought is finely ground.

> Try identical amounts by weight and
> dissolve thoroughly in half a packet of soup each, and then see if
> you can tell the difference.

I probably wouldn't be able to in that instance, due to the taste being
disguised by all the other flavours. But I never add salt to soup anyway.
About the only thing I ever add it to is potatoes and chips.

Besides, what better way to compare tastes than on their own? They do taste
*very* different, I was surprised, as have some other people who've tried
it. Apparently all sea salts taste different due to different minerals being
present.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/w...y/comet-holmes/

Paul Saunders

Bob Mannix wrote:

> Yebbut - ordinary table salt is mined.

Then processed.

"Commonly used additives in salt are Sodium Hexacyanoferrate II and
Magnesium Carbonate."

> The seas that laid this salt
> down were pristine sparkly clean phehistoric seas. Sea salt now comes
> out of the, well, sea and that's full of cr*p now.

"Finally, as an insurance against any possible undesirable elements in the
seawater, the brine passes through several manmade filters which go to a
fineness of several microns."
http://www.seasalt.co.uk/wisscms-en-198.aspx

> Give me ordinary salt any day!

It's not ordinary, it's processed.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/w...y/comet-holmes/