yukk

Dominic Sexton

In article <1fgnk3pvsba6a9q45193l4ahktns29fjof@4ax.com>, Tom Crispin
<kije.remove@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge> writes
>On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:54:06 +0000, Dominic Sexton
><{d-sep03}@dscs.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>A map and compass cannot do what a GPS and map can do. However, a
>>>water bottle can serve exactly the same function as those bacteria
>>>bladders.
>>
>>Rubbish!
>
>Do you disagree that a water bottle can serve as an alternative to
>bacteria bladder.

A bacteria bottle can indeed serve as an alternative to a nice fresh
sparkly clean water bladder. However you said it can serve exactly the
same function which it cannot without the addition of a drinking tube.
Even then if it isn't a collapsible bottle it wouldn't serve exactly the
same function. I use bottles and bladders. Both have pros and both have
cons.

--

Dominic Sexton

Peter Clinch

Simon Challands wrote:

> I find it very convenient just to be able to have a sip when I want
> instead of having to stop, faff around behind me to find a bottle,
> then carry on.

Water bottle in a waistbelt holster is easier to fill than a bladder,
you can easily see how much you have left and it's very easy to pull it
out for a sip and re-holster it without breaking stride, /if/ you don't
otherwise have your hands full and you're not running.

I find a bladder very handy when I have my hands full (particularly
canoeing/kayaking, the bladder sits in the back pocket of my BA very
happily). Otherwise I tend not to bother with them. As with many other
bits of kit, they have a useful place, but I don't think they're as
wonderful as their degree of take-up suggests (same with walking poles,
most of which seem to be out there because someone said they're good
rather than they're doing any good).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch

Tom Crispin wrote:

> Do you disagree that a water bottle can serve as an alternative to
> bacteria bladder.

Time I really like my Plat is kayak surfing. The bladder goes in the
back pocket of my BA and the tube is handy for a sip between breakers.
I imagine one /could/ use a water bottle, but best of luck to you in
getting a drink and still having it after you've been looped a few times...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Richard Spencer

The message <zYadnYNLorRJENfaRVnygwA@bt.com>
from "michael k" <michaelk@dontspamme.com> contains these words:

> resue them with tap or stream water for
> about a week before binning them.

So you then just "bin" PET bottles?

Does not your Council arrange for them to be recycled? (If it doesn't,
nag your local Councillor, or just dump a ton of PET on his door step!)

Richard

michael k

"Richard Spencer" <richard.spencer@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3130303034353039474C15EB44@zetnet.co.uk...
> The message <zYadnYNLorRJENfaRVnygwA@bt.com>
> from "michael k" <michaelk@dontspamme.com> contains these words:
>
>> resue them with tap or stream water for
>> about a week before binning them.
>
> So you then just "bin" PET bottles?
>
> Does not your Council arrange for them to be recycled? (If it doesn't,
> nag your local Councillor, or just dump a ton of PET on his door step!)
>
> Richard

I think more than 20 of the local Councillors are currently in jail for
corruption in the part of Spain that I have just come from.

10% of the forests and 1% of the total land mass has been burnt this summer
in Greece, which is the other place that I visit regularly. In Greece the
Councillors will arrange for recycled bottles to be dumped in the
countryside then set alight (probably). The EU then gives the councillors
umpteen million euros to put the damage right, money which goes into their
back pockets.

Environmental issues are more than just binning rubbish in the right bins.
You have to bin certain politicians first.

Bernard Hill

>
>I find it very convenient just to be able to have a sip when I want
>instead of having to stop, faff around behind me to find a bottle,
>then carry on. The only problem I have with them is not knowing how
>much water I have left. I've certainly not had a problem with gunk and
>so on in them, and I've only ever cleaned mine thoroughly the once
>(then again, I never put anything in other than water). IMO they're
>far less of a gimmick than, say, GPS.

My Craghoppers rucksack has front "balancing packs" (!) which consist of
two sets of two pouches (zipped inside, open netting outside) and are a
great place to put

a) outside left: water bottle. Takes a litre with no problem
b) outside right: camera for quick photos. (cover when raining!)
c) inside left: light gloves
d) inside right: currently unused

I wouldn't swap my rucksack for any other.

--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

Bernard Hill

In article <5r2cgkF11ndbcU1@mid.individual.net>, Peter Clinch
<p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> writes
> (same with walking poles, most of which seem to be out there because
>someone said they're good rather than they're doing any good).

Oh No! An essential piece of equipment. If I found out I had left them
at home when arriving for a mountain walk I would abandon it.

You've obviously not got pain in the knees like I have. Every step down
is a sharp pain but is alleviated by levering myself down on the poles.

--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

Peter Clinch

Bernard Hill wrote:
> In article <5r2cgkF11ndbcU1@mid.individual.net>, Peter Clinch
> <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> writes
>> (same with walking poles, most of which seem to be out there because
>> someone said they're good rather than they're doing any good).
>
> Oh No! An essential piece of equipment. If I found out I had left them
> at home when arriving for a mountain walk I would abandon it.
>
> You've obviously not got pain in the knees like I have. Every step down
> is a sharp pain but is alleviated by levering myself down on the poles.

Note I didn't say they're not any good (if I thought that, then
http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/poles.htm would be *very*
different!), but that most of the ones out there don't actually do any
good in practice.

Look at most other pole users and they wave them ineffectually at the
ground every couple of paces and don't actually put any weight through
them (maybe just as well for their fingers, since most of them aren't
using the straps to take any weight...). Used like that they don't do
anything for the knees: that requires active work with the arms, and
where it isn't done the poles are really an affectation rather than a
good way to redirect body weight.

I don't use my poles nearly as much as I used to, and a lot of that is
building up the supporting muscles around the knee. Now I can take
downhills much better on my things, keeping my knees bent during
descents, which saves faffing about with poles. You need pretty chunky
thighs to get away with it though, and I still like poles on big, steep
and sustained routes down.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Gordon H

Gordon <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> writes
>"michael k" <michaelk@dontspamme.com> wrote in message
>news:kvSdnVKnh_aXe9TanZ2dnUVZ8uudnZ2d@bt.com...
>> "hydration bladder fur", thats a new one, it sounds on a par with "crusty
>> knickers", or "smelling of fish". Anyone know what the "fur" actually
>> consists of? I'm referring to the stuff that apparently grows inside
>> those weird plastic bags with a tube that some people carry on their
>> backs whilst walking or running.
>>
>
>
>I suspect it's the same process by which natural Mineral water goes "off" if
>you drink out of the bottle and then leave it for some days. Bacteria from
>the mouth get washed back into the container and then start multiplying...
>
No problem. That's my own friendly bacteria. ;-)
--
Gordon H
The other Gordon
(Remove "Invalid" to reply)

Gordon H

Dominic Sexton <{d-sep03}@dscs.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>I hope you mean recycle rather than bin! I have been using the same
>500ml pop bottle several time a week for years. All it gets is a quick
>rinse under the tap when I get home and then is left to dry. No fur,
>gunge or slime and no illness!
>
That's what I do, a sure way to build up the body's immune system.

They do get brittle and burst after a while though..
--
Gordon H
(Remove "Invalid" to reply)

Gordon H

michael k <michaelk@dontspamme.com> writes
>
>"Simon Challands" <simon_usenet@helvellyn.plus.com> wrote
>
>> . The only problem I have with them is not knowing how
>> much water I have left.
>
>Sounds like a pretty big problem to me.
>
I look at the plastic bottle and make a rough estimate.
--
Gordon H
(Remove "Invalid" to reply)

michael k

"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote
many other
> bits of kit, they have a useful place, but I don't think they're as
> wonderful as their degree of take-up suggests (same with walking poles,
> most of which seem to be out there because someone said they're good
> rather than they're doing any good).

Walking sticks are the essential must have. It's great that they now do
sticks for kids and also left and right handed sticks.
Seriously though, I cringe when I see a group of 5 or 6 people out on a
walk, all of them sporting a pair of brand new stciks. I'm 49 and after 3
knee ops have had to start using sticks on descents. They do make a lot of
difference for me but I can't believe that 90% plus of the outdoor
fraternity are partially crippled by the age of 30!

Going back to the subject of these bladders, in my life I have met one
person hospitalised for hydration problems, she had overdosed on water from
a bladder.

Tom Crispin

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:16:16 +0000, Peter Clinch
<p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:

>Tom Crispin wrote:
>
>> Do you disagree that a water bottle can serve as an alternative to
>> bacteria bladder.
>
>Time I really like my Plat is kayak surfing. The bladder goes in the
>back pocket of my BA and the tube is handy for a sip between breakers.
>I imagine one /could/ use a water bottle, but best of luck to you in
>getting a drink and still having it after you've been looped a few times...

I haven't been kayaking for years and years. When I cycle camped the
Raid Pyrenean I kept a 3L Camelback in my rear pannier with an
extension tube to the front handlebars. But boy! It was an effort to
get any water. On those lonely 2000m cols I often pondered if it
would be possible to have some sort of switched mechanical pump to aid
with water flow. But with average speeds on big ascents little more
than 4mph, and with descent speeds of up to 50mph, I reckoned that
water flow would vary between a trickle and a flood.

Jim Ford

Tom Crispin wrote:

> However, a water bottle is an excellent alternative to a bacteria
> bladder.

No it isn't if you want to pose, walking round the local footpaths,
swinging a pair of poles and wearing a polar buff!

Jim Ford