Fuentes history

poulidor

For blood doping it's there is important to have a lot of material which where not common by the past. Anquetil began his pro career in 1953, he won this year the Grand Prix des Nations ... He won TDF in 57, 61,62, 63 and 64. He finished his career in 1969. I could believe that he could have try some sort of blood doping at the end because of Viren's results at 1972 Munich JO. It would be find to seek the first studies of Dr. Ekblom who was the responsible of Lasse blood "doping". At this time it was not banned to use "fresh blood".

classic1

I know a bloke (cyclist) who blood doped in the 70's. Reckons he's never gone faster.

classic1

There was definitely blood doping around in the 70's and it wasn't banned until after the 84 Olympic Games. It was always looked at as being unethical, but wasn't illegal. I can't remember for sure but it was either the LA Times or Rolling Stone that broke the 84 US cycling team blood doping story. BTW, a couple of the US riders got sick from it.

Gregers

If you use Finnish athletics as a guide they had generally been pretty poor until 1971 when Vaatainen got their breakthrough 5/1000m double at the Europeans. Viren and Pekka Vasala then somewhat unexpectedly carried all before them at Munich.in '72. I think that gives a pretty big clue. Although this is where it first came to prominence, I don't think that they were the first Finnish blood dopers. If I recall correctly it was originally being experimented on by, interestingly, Orienteers and also the X country skiers towards the end of the sixties. It was not even particularly clandestine-being organised by doctors affiliated to various Finnish sporting bodies.
From there it was taken up and refined by Soviet sports programmes. The mystery is why it seems to have taken until 1984-when Ed Burke made his proposal- for cyclists to take advantage of a reasonably proven, albeit primitive, technique.

Bro Deal

Who did the procedure? Was it a national organization, university researchers, private doctor in employ of the cyclists, etc.?

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Bro Deal

I would like to know the extent of its use between 1984 and roughly 1993.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Frigo's Luggage

I always understood blood doping was first used by Emile Zatopek in the 1952 Olympics. He won the 10k, 5k and then entered his first ever marathon and won the thing. That is like a track sprinter deciding to enter the Tour at the last minute and dominating it. Just doesn't happen.

I didn't realize that Fuentes' main office was in the Canaries. Didn't Cowboy spend some quality training time in the Canaries after getting crushed in Paris Nice or one of the other spring races?

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We are all made of stars.

Gregers

I would be genuinely interested to know where you heard this about Zatopek as I have never come across any suggestion that he was ever enhanced by anything other than hard work.. The reasons why he was able to dominate in 1952 have always been well understood.
In a more sophisticated and competitive era Viren very nearly pulled off the same feat in '76 but that was unquestionably aided by blood doping. The day after the 10000m finals, Brendan Foster and Dave Black were literally crawling to the canteen in the Olympic village and were astonished to see the man that had outsprinted them out for a run. They were even more staggered when he came 5th in his debut marathon the day after winning the 5000m.

limerickman

Virens Olympic performance in 1976 was phenomenal : his 5th place in the marathon only came about because better dopers (Cierpinski) managed to beat him.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Crankyfeet

Yes now its so obvious <dejected tone>. With what we know now from endurance physiology, how could someone win olympic gold in the 5,000 and then come 5th the next day in the marathon. It makes me feel so cheated thinking of all the other fakes that I lauded as heroes, that were really nothing more than sleazy cheats, basking in false glory. Cheating that practically no one at that time knew anything about.

I now really feel sympathy for the highest placed clean athletes in those times, that nobody now remembers, who were rightfully the best clean runners in the world and deserved olympic gold medalists.

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thunder

no actually it is not. 1952, what was the catchment in competitors? What training regimes did they have.

When one considers how much improvment was potentially within athletes, and then the superior athletes who never competed or were on the other side of the earth unable to get a boat, or finance their entrance, I do not think it is unbelievable.

Quite plausible.

Should not compare 1952 to now. There was not the specialisation, to begin with. The training for 5km and 42 would have been similar.

That said, genetic predisposition and specialisation in the energy systems between 15 minutes and 140 minutes.

But, there was no real sorting out and selectivity, because the pool of athletes so small compared to today.

Crankyfeet

It was Viren in 1976 I was referring to. Zatopek won the marathon in 1952.

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limerickman

Actually Viren ran the 1976 marathon in a time of 2hrs 13mins - and as Gregers says - he did so after winning the 5,000 metres the previous day.
Phenomenal.

Here's a great description of that 5,000 metre race.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/...2134389,00.html

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

classic1

Privately. He only tried it once to my knowledge