Benefits of muscle tension intervals?

Gazzz

Hi,

Does anyone have any evidence, anecdotal or empirical, on the results of doing the Carmichael style muscle tension intervals?

At 40 years young, I believe my body comes slowly to form after a gradual build up with 2Xweekly SST and 3Xweekly upper end aerobic, but LT intensity delaying to the spring. Yes, I am a trainer fiend.

What benefits will grinding out 55rpm do for a reasonable Cat 4 who loves climbing
(140lb) and would like to match some of his chunkier team mates on the club 10k TT?

Thanks for any input,

Gazzz

Tim M

There's a good article here:


http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/setraining/

rmur17

well IMHO:

1. One Effect will likely be sore knees.
2. A second will be significantly reduced HR during such intervals.
3. A third will be excitement based on #2 but tempered by #1.
4. A fourth will be 'sad realization' once you return to normal cadences at normal power. IOW, that drop in HR (or increase in working Power/HR ratio) was meaningless.

I tried some 70 rpm work one winter at only tempo power and still got sore knees (plus the other symptoms ). I will admit I 'felt' a bit 'stronger' pushing over some short hills/grades w/o changing gear but I quickly reverted to using my gears again!

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blkhotrod

disregard this article or anything rick stern says on this forum. with all the different modes of training, a guy has to keep some variety in training (most of the so called experts havent seen a 300-400 mile bike week ever)....do some big gear work, but dont over do it and get sore knees like the one guy said. i mix it in with the rest of workouts and the quads usually acknowledge it the next day.

acoggan

Only at your peril!



Wouldn't the fact that there are so many different ways to train mean that it's easier to eliminate one, and still have plenty of variety?



Just an FYI: back when I was a cat. 1 - in fact, even back when I was a junior - I would routinely train >300 mi/wk, and 400+ mi weeks weren't uncommon. Of course, that was back before I discovered that there are far more time-efficient (albeit less fun) ways of achieving the same goals.



So if it hurts it must be good for you, eh?

ric_stern/RST

Well, if you ignore article's by Andy C, you're obviously more moronic than you look.

Anyway, it's "Ric" not "Rick", so i suggest some adult spelling and reading classes for you.



Well, if i'm one of your "so called experts", then again, as you were with Andy, you're wrong. I've had plenty of > 600 km weeks (especially when i raced in France).

Ric

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Alex Simmons

You'll probably get better at doing climbs at 55rpm.

So unless that's a requirement due to the nature of the hills you intend to climb and your bike's gearing, then there really isn't any point in doing them at such low revs. Just climb the hill.

If you have some belief that it will make you "stronger", then forget it, it won't.

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grahamspringett

I would imagine ignoring a professional and experienced coach like Ric Stern and instead listening to somebody, err, less knowledgeable is highly unwise.

Just as we don't wrap tubular tyres round our shoulders, flip a wheel around to change to the other gear or strap our feet to pedals, so too don't we ride a bike 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. It would seem training methods have moved on from that, particularly for the time-conscious amateurs.

postal_bag

I normally like to ride at about 90 rpm. My local "climb" (actually, I have to ride ~60km to get there) is only 850m long with 4 switchbacks (at least I think it's 4 - it's all a blurr). 6 w/kg will get you up it in ~3.5 min. In my easiest gears, alternating between 39/23 and 39/25, my average cadence is around 70 rpm.

Although I finished in 2nd place at this year's race, I am on the fence about whether to put a 27 on the next time I race there. I guess the alternative is to do some L5 training at 70 rpm.

Gazzz

Thanks for all the input.

Here in Utah, there are lots of long climbs that reduce me a low cadence, but not 50-55rpm - usually!

A lot of this is psychological for me, The muscle tension intervals "feel" like winter work. And then there's the mystique from their being associated with Lance...

From what I read, the benefits I am seeking would be better pursued from longer intervals at or just below threshold and more intense over geared shrt intervals.

Fair summary?

john979

But Carmichael wasn't Lance's trainer. Dr. Ferrari was...

ali_baba

If you google for these kind of intervals you will find plenty of people claiming success with them. There was a study carried out at the University of Auckland (in 2006 I think) that pointed quite strongly to an improvement in 40km TT time when using this type of training over an 8 week period, I found the article on the Peak Performance website but couldn't see it when I had a quick look to find the link. They used cadence of between 40 and 80 rpm to get their results showing an improvement of 6.4 +/- 7.7% in 40Km TT mean power and a reduction in 40Km TT time of 2.3 +/- 2.9%.

I thought they helped me in my TT training last season but there seems to be many ways to end up at the same place.

ric_stern/RST

if it's the study i'm thinking of, it wasn't a well controlled study...

ric

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ali_baba

I found a link to a summary of results. The study was by Amy M. Taylor-Mason

http://www.sportsci.org/jour/05/amt-m.htm

There are links to the full article there.

Ric - is this the study you are referring to?