Re: If you don't believe in Evolution, then why do you drive an SUV?

Tom Sherman

George Conklin wrote:
> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
>> ...
>> And on the other hand, there seems to be a perception among
>> a lot of people that cycling is just too inconvenient -- that
>> one must dress funny, "brave" the elements, and risk their
>> neck among motorized traffic. They don't realize it doesn't
>> have to be such a big deal.
>>
> In this climate, I would need a shower and chaning room in the buildings at
> work, since I would arrive totally 100% soaked through 8 months of the year.
> Also, a change of clothes and a place to wash them. So you would need
> locker rooms too.

Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of "free"
parking, when the externalities are accounted for.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Jack May

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> George Conklin wrote:
>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...

> Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of "free"
> parking, when the externalities are accounted for.

A company needs "free" parking to be able to attract the people they want to
hire. Very few people ride a bike to work. Showers and lockers are still
installed these days for people that exercise at work.

Tom Sherman

Jack May wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> George Conklin wrote:
>>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
>
>> Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of "free"
>> parking, when the externalities are accounted for.
>
> A company needs "free" parking to be able to attract the people they want to
> hire. Very few people ride a bike to work. Showers and lockers are still
> installed these days for people that exercise at work.
>
Pretty poor excuse for a society then, eh?

If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a lot
more commuter cyclists.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Jack May

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fmdn14$4pr$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Jack May wrote:
>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>> George Conklin wrote:
>>>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
>>

> Pretty poor excuse for a society then, eh?
>
> If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a lot
> more commuter cyclists.

People are paying the true cost of motor vehicles. People pay for the
"free" parking with reduced income. It is probably a small percentage of
their income.

How about the transit users paying off the true cost transit. That is a
very large percentage of the income of most users. The true cost is
typically shown to be the equivalent of a luxury car every year. Few car
owners pay anywhere near that amount each year.

Let me repeat for the people the "just don't get it". People don't use
transit because its slow speed with lots of delays. Transit costs so much
in dollar equivalents of time that people can not afford it.

Transit is just a completely stupid, incompetent approach for 21st Century
society.

Ho
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> - A. Derleth

Tom Sherman

Jack May wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fmdn14$4pr$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Jack May wrote:
>>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>> George Conklin wrote:
>>>>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
>
>> Pretty poor excuse for a society then, eh?
>>
>> If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a lot
>> more commuter cyclists.
>
> People are paying the true cost of motor vehicles. People pay for the
> "free" parking with reduced income. It is probably a small percentage of
> their income.
>
Oh please. In the US, people do NOT pay directly for the true cost, but
it is hidden in other expenses. Therefore, they do not make the sensible
economic decisions, since their information is faulty.
>
> How about the transit users paying off the true cost transit. That is a
> very large percentage of the income of most users. The true cost is
> typically shown to be the equivalent of a luxury car every year. Few car
> owners pay anywhere near that amount each year.
>
If personal motor vehicle owners had to pay the true cost up front in
use taxes, the ridership of transit would be high enough for it to be
more efficient, especially once people started abandoning inefficient
outer suburban and exurban living in "McMansions".
>
> Let me repeat for the people the "just don't get it". People don't use
> transit because its slow speed with lots of delays. Transit costs so much
> in dollar equivalents of time that people can not afford it.
>
And commuting in urban areas by large personal motor vehicles does not
involve slow speeds and lots of delays? On what planet is this?
>
> Transit is just a completely stupid, incompetent approach for 21st Century
> society.
>
The stupid approach is thinking that putting everyone in a 2 to 4 ton
box by themselves is a good and/or sustainable idea.
>
> Ho
>
What does urban prostitution have to do with this?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Baxter

-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"George Conklin" <nil@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13okg8kd29ufc17@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> In this climate, I would need a shower and chaning room in the buildings
> at
> work, since I would arrive totally 100% soaked through 8 months of the
> year.
> Also, a change of clothes and a place to wash them. So you would need
> locker rooms too.
>
You don't have to bike EVERY trip in order to help the environment and our
oil situation.

Baxter

-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Jack May" <jack.may@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:AK-dncU_nMJMxxfanZ2dnUVZ_siknZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> George Conklin wrote:
>>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
>
>> Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of "free"
>> parking, when the externalities are accounted for.
>
> A company needs "free" parking to be able to attract the people they want
> to hire. Very few people ride a bike to work. Showers and lockers are
> still installed these days for people that exercise at work.
Your "very few" is actually a rather large number in Portland, OR.

George Conklin

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> George Conklin wrote:
> > "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> >> ...
> >> And on the other hand, there seems to be a perception among
> >> a lot of people that cycling is just too inconvenient -- that
> >> one must dress funny, "brave" the elements, and risk their
> >> neck among motorized traffic. They don't realize it doesn't
> >> have to be such a big deal.
> >>
> > In this climate, I would need a shower and chaning room in the buildings
at
> > work, since I would arrive totally 100% soaked through 8 months of the
year.
> > Also, a change of clothes and a place to wash them. So you would need
> > locker rooms too.
>
> Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of "free"
> parking, when the externalities are accounted for.

So who gets free parking? And those externalities are infinite if you
are one of those bicycle militants.

George Conklin

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fmdn14$4pr$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Jack May wrote:
> > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> >> George Conklin wrote:
> >>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> >
> >> Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of "free"
> >> parking, when the externalities are accounted for.
> >
> > A company needs "free" parking to be able to attract the people they
want to
> > hire. Very few people ride a bike to work. Showers and lockers are
still
> > installed these days for people that exercise at work.
> >
> Pretty poor excuse for a society then, eh?
>
> If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a lot
> more commuter cyclists.
>
You have that totally backwards. Turning a 15 minute commute into a one
and half hour commute at standard wage rates means that you are wasting
several hours per day of productive work time, and you arrive at work
exhausted to boot.

George Conklin

"Jack May" <jack.may@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:LPWdnfd-cvH8GBfanZ2dnUVZ_oimnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fmdn14$4pr$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> > Jack May wrote:
> >> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> >>> George Conklin wrote:
> >>>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> >>
>
> > Pretty poor excuse for a society then, eh?
> >
> > If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a lot
> > more commuter cyclists.
>
> People are paying the true cost of motor vehicles. People pay for the
> "free" parking with reduced income. It is probably a small percentage of
> their income.
>
> How about the transit users paying off the true cost transit. That is a
> very large percentage of the income of most users. The true cost is
> typically shown to be the equivalent of a luxury car every year. Few car
> owners pay anywhere near that amount each year.
>
> Let me repeat for the people the "just don't get it". People don't use
> transit because its slow speed with lots of delays. Transit costs so much
> in dollar equivalents of time that people can not afford it.
>
> Transit is just a completely stupid, incompetent approach for 21st Century
> society.
>
>

Transit is speedy compared a bicycle. But bicycles may cost less.

George Conklin

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message

> Oh please. In the US, people do NOT pay directly for the true cost, but
> it is hidden in other expenses.

The true cost of riding a bicycle is huge, and hidden by nonsense posted
here.

Bonehenge (B A R R Y)

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:20:40 -0800, "Baxter"
<lbax02.spamguard@baxcode.com> wrote:

>You don't have to bike EVERY trip in order to help the environment and our
>oil situation.
>

Right on!

I commute on a regular basis (140+ round trips last year!) and do as
many trips as I can by bike. I also work part time at a bicycle shop,
where I teach safe riding and bicycle care clinics. I also belong and
participate in several advocacy groups.

Along with all that, I live in an area that gets significant snowfall,
and then enjoys frozen slush and run-off. My morning commute is in
the dark 4-5 months of the year. I drive at the extreme cold ends of
the local climate. I have no problem riding in a warm rain, but pass
on cold and rain. I ride in cold and dark, but adding the third
dimension of ice puts me in the car.

Bicycle militants turn more people off than they convert to the joys
of riding for actual transportation.

People just need to ride when they can, and extol the virtues of
riding with purpose to encourage others. People willingly join like
minded people, and they move away from extremists.

Tom Sherman

George Conklin wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>> Oh please. In the US, people do NOT pay directly for the true cost, but
>> it is hidden in other expenses.
>
> The true cost of riding a bicycle is huge, and hidden by nonsense posted
> here.
>
Now that is just being silly. How does riding a bicycle impose huge
costs, especially compared to the individual motor vehicle?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Tom Sherman

George Conklin wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fmdn14$4pr$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Jack May wrote:
>>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>> George Conklin wrote:
>>>>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
>>>> Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of "free"
>>>> parking, when the externalities are accounted for.
>>> A company needs "free" parking to be able to attract the people they
> want to
>>> hire. Very few people ride a bike to work. Showers and lockers are
> still
>>> installed these days for people that exercise at work.
>>>
>> Pretty poor excuse for a society then, eh?
>>
>> If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a lot
>> more commuter cyclists.
>>
> You have that totally backwards. Turning a 15 minute commute into a one
> and half hour commute at standard wage rates means that you are wasting
> several hours per day of productive work time, and you arrive at work
> exhausted to boot.
>
Nonsense. Riding a bicycle is fun! Regular exercise makes a person LESS
tired.

Get out of your cage!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth