Tips for adult first time rider

TimC

On 2008-01-20, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> TimC wrote:
>> How do I turn when I a have no hands on the handlebars (not that I
>> would do that, your honour)?
>
> Body weight shift will actually turn the bars.

Fair enough.

>> Note that gyroscopic action is not what causes a bike to stay upright
>> too - you can have two identical wheels rotating in the opposite
>> direction as well as your two wheels contacting the ground, and still
>> be able to balance your bike.
>
> I didn't understand what you said then. Please explain. I believe the
> primary stabilisation factor is the wheels turning, no matter how light you
> think they are.

Build a bike where you mount two identical wheels that are rotating in
the opposite sense at the same speed, so there is no net rotational
momentum. Go forward. Marvel at not falling off.

--
TimC
I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. -- Linus Torvalds, 1991

Resound

"TimC" <tconnors@no.spam.accepted.here-astro.swin.edu.au> wrote in message
news:slrn-0.9.7.4-16492-10546-200801202346-tc@hexane.ssi.swin.edu.au...
> On 2008-01-20, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> TimC wrote:
>>> How do I turn when I a have no hands on the handlebars (not that I
>>> would do that, your honour)?
>>
>> Body weight shift will actually turn the bars.
>
> Fair enough.
>
>>> Note that gyroscopic action is not what causes a bike to stay upright
>>> too - you can have two identical wheels rotating in the opposite
>>> direction as well as your two wheels contacting the ground, and still
>>> be able to balance your bike.
>>
>> I didn't understand what you said then. Please explain. I believe the
>> primary stabilisation factor is the wheels turning, no matter how light
>> you
>> think they are.
>
> Build a bike where you mount two identical wheels that are rotating in
> the opposite sense at the same speed, so there is no net rotational
> momentum. Go forward. Marvel at not falling off.


You can also balance perfectly well on a bike frame fitted out with skis
instead of wheels. As I understand it, balance on a bike is essentially
about keeping your base of suoopt under your centre of mass, as it is with
keeping your balance any other time. The only real difference on a bike is
that you're not statically stable so it's something of an active process.

Joel Mayes

On 2008-01-20, Theo Bekkers <tbekkers@bekkers.com.au> wrote:
> TimC wrote:
>> Theo Bekkers wrote
>>> TimC wrote:
>
>>>> And I've tried it on my bike, with different results. I am yet to
>>>> remain convinced that you can counter-steer on a bicycle.
>>>
>>> I'm convinced you can't steer it any other way. It's not optional.
>>
>> What about below 15km/h, as I think it was Zebee, said?
>
> The effect is far less.
>
>> How do I turn when I a have no hands on the handlebars (not that I
>> would do that, your honour)?
>
> Body weight shift will actually turn the bars.
>
>> Note that gyroscopic action is not what causes a bike to stay upright
>> too - you can have two identical wheels rotating in the opposite
>> direction as well as your two wheels contacting the ground, and still
>> be able to balance your bike.
>
> I didn't understand what you said then. Please explain. I believe the
> primary stabilisation factor is the wheels turning, no matter how light you
> think they are.
>


K.J. Atr"om from Lund University debunked this with a very long series
of experiments, which including building a number of bikes with
coutner-rotating wheels and many other oddities.

The results are published in a peer-reviewed paper entitled "Bicycle
Dynamics and Control" you can find a copy using Google Scholar.

Cheers

Joel

--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
joel@humanpowered.com.au | Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 |
www.humanpowered.com.au | CPF and RTCA Member

Donga

On Jan 20, 2:12 am, Skewer <Thiscantw...@example.com> wrote:
> Travis wrote:
> > Hi, a family member who has managed to reach 40 without ever having
> > ridden a bike recently approached me for help with this. She's very
> > short statured and required a kid's bike, to which I've attached
> > training wheels suitably modified and beefed up to work with the
> > medium size wheels on this bike. (Out of the box training wheels seem
> > to assume that the bike they're to be fitted to will be for a toddler
> > at most, they're tiny.)
>
> > Anyway, lessons haven't been going well. If I don't maintain an iron
> > grip on the handlebars while running along side she's instantly off
> > course and out of control. In effect she's not much more than a
> > passenger of a bike which I am in control of.
>
> > I'm not prepared to concede that some people are just unteachable and
> > that there is no hope whatsoever of her learning to ride a bike, so if
> > anyone has any coaching tips which don't involve too much risk of
> > injury I'd like to hear them!
>
> > If this works, there will be one less car...
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Travis
>
> Travis
>
> Maybe part of the problem is that she is being asked to learn too many
> things (balancing/steering/pedaling/braking) in one go. Add to that not
> trying to look foolish and a natural fear of possible injury.
>
> So, make the task simpler.
> Take the pedals off and lower the seat so she can comfortably put both
> feet flat on the ground. Let her then scoot around on level ground,
> preferably grass, so she can concentrate on just balance & steering.
>
> Google points to advice here.http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/i...hp/t-94540.html
> as well there is the A.B archive
> 2.2.3 How do you teach an adult to ride?http://thehippy.net/Cycling/a_b_faq.htm#Sect2.1.3
>
> --
> --
> Pete.B

One more thing when you've set her up - tell her to teach herself. It
has to come from inside, it's a feeling you get. If you stick around,
you'll be the excuse and the punching bag.

brucef

On Jan 20, 6:47 am, Bleve <carl.I.bre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> agreed, ditch the trainer wheels (they don't help), off with the
> pedals and learn to balance rolling down a very gentle hill on grass.
> The rest is easy.

Personally I think trainer wheels are counter-productive, and wouldn't
recommend them for anyone. I find a scooter to be an excellent way of
developing balance skills. Alternatively, as someone else pointed out,
set the seat really low so that the rider can easily plant both feet
on the ground and push around. I wouldn't go to the extent of removing
the pedals. A large empty carpark with a gentle slope is a good thing.

DaveB

Skewer wrote:
>
> So, make the task simpler.
> Take the pedals off and lower the seat so she can comfortably put both
> feet flat on the ground. Let her then scoot around on level ground,
> preferably grass, so she can concentrate on just balance & steering.
>

Yep, just got my daughter riding after 2 years of getting nowhere with
training wheels, and 1 week of practice without pedals and a lower seat.

DaveB

SteveA

Get rid of the trainer wheels.

Find a gentle grassy slope.

I taught my daughter on the grassy slope outside the Boatshed Cafe next to the bike path in South Perth.

Lots of gentle coasting down the slope.

Graduating to the bike path.

Rewarded by coffee/milkshake/muffin from the cafe.

Steve

Harry 'Snapper' Organ

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 04:28:14 -0800 (PST), Travis
<travismorien@yahoo.com> wrote in aus.bicycle:

>
>I'm not prepared to concede that some people are just unteachable and
>that there is no hope whatsoever of her learning to ride a bike, so if
>anyone has any coaching tips which don't involve too much risk of
>injury I'd like to hear them!

I have taught 5 kids to ride bikes over the last 40 years and
generally running behind and holding them upright behind the saddle
has been sufficient. With one I removed the pedals and lowered the
seat so they could scoot along for about half an hour to get the
"feel" of balance

My youngest however was looking impossible to teach, absolutely
nothing worked. In a stroke of genious (OK luck) I bought a scooter
for a few dollars from the Sally Army shop. This seemed to be the
perfect platform for learning about balance and once he got the hang
of that getting on the bike took about 5 minutes. Then it was a battle
to get him off the bike.

So iff nothing else works try a scooter first until they can stand on
and balance then the bike will be easy.


Regards
Harold

Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum - Lucretius