2008 Ftp?

Originally Posted by doctorSpoc

i use what i can actually do in training to set training levels

Originally Posted by doctorSpoc

i agree with you... i think i stated that 4-5 post ago. but i'm looking at this from practical point of view... when i get on the road and i'm going to do my interval, when i'm planning my training schedule, what concrete thing changes based on that 3-4W difference in that value? what does that precision get me? basically, nothing.. the utility gain from the precision from a practical point of view for these formal field tests is so low that they are waste of time... i can get close enough and in fact get even better other information by other means... not a good use of ones time, an just plain unnecessary... even using monod.. i only take a peak a few times a year and i'm not doing anything formal, i'm just taking some numbers and seeing what they spit out.. more for interest sake than anything else.

know what's really funny... you are actually a prime candidate for using 20min power... the difference in your 20min and 1hr power is within the precision of most power meters... isn't that ironic

anyone that's been riding for more than a minute knows that races can be won in many different ways... a rider will be successful if the maximize on their assets and limit their liabilities... and it also helps if you have tactically inept competition. People such as yourself should be the easiest to out maneuver tactically since you only have one weapon at your disposal. It should be really easy to counter.. basically sit on you or do considerably less work than you if in a break with you and then go around you at 100m to the line. the other side of the coin is that those with considerably less aerobic abilities than yourself can make up for it by exploiting their AnCap abilities and for shorter effort good AnCap can mask low FTP.

it comes down to this.. the only situation that you won't have to worry about AnCap is if you finish solo... and how often does that happen? and even then, how did you attack in the first place? even from a small break you're going to need to sprint or attack in order to win etc... bottom line... maximizing you AnCap means maximizing your odds of success in racing... and that goes for anyone. but again if you're smart enough and/or you competition is foolish or ignorant enough it's possible to find a way to win... but most of the time i think you'll find yourself getting a lot of 5th-10th places.

sorry strader... i'll stop now.. let the pissing resume...

Originally Posted by Urkiola2

With all due my respects, doctorSpoc, I believe that you need to review/update some very important bases and background on Exercise biochemistry and metabolism and then apply them to their influences on racing results. As Coggan very well says "metabolic fitness" and not Anaerobic Capacity sets the pros apart from Cat 5 riders. I would add that this is also true to differentiate world class pros from "average" Pro Tour level cyclists.
Anaerobic capacity in a "real race" can ONLY make the difference if your "metabolic fitness" is fully developed.....pretty obvious though, since everyone whith racing experience knows or should know that...if you are good enough to make it with the best riders at the end of the race (good "metabolic fitness") and you are a good sprinter your chances are much higher...however you need to make it with the bests first...otherwise you would have no chance even if you are the 1Kilo world champion...

P.D. Thanks to whoever got rid off the spam!.

Originally Posted by doctorSpoc

... the people around you are going to have similar "metabolic fitness" to you.. ...

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming

That's not my experience at all. Races shatter into little pieces on climbs over 10 to 15 minutes in length. Lack of ancap isn't the problem for those riders getting shelled. Same for extended crosswind stretches, it's metabolic fitness that's letting the break get away.

Sure, among those that hit the final kilo together, ancap and a good sprint are really important. But how often do we hear folks giving L6 training advice to guys getting shelled in the first 20 minutes of a race that have never been there to see the leader cross the line? Personally the best thing I ever did for my racing was to focus my training on metabolic fitness. Yup, you can't ignore the short intense end but without the sustained power all the ancap in the world won't amount to much.

-Dave

Originally Posted by doctorSpoc

... i used the word similar, not the same... ..

Originally Posted by doctorSpoc

do you not recognize that you've basically repeated EVERYTHING i've said in my post? i'm talking right down to using the exact same times that AnCap isn't going to count for sh!t... WTF!... LMAO!

guys in the same category have metabolic fitness in the same ballpark.. they don't have the exact same metabolic fitness.. i used the word similar, not the same... and certainly not to the ridiculous degree of a Cat5 to a Pro that Dr. Coggan and Urkiola 2 gave. in certain races metabolic fitness is going to matter more... i say this in my post and you repeat it.. trying to make some point that i can't really figure out.. but whatever? but no matter what... better AnCap betters your odds of success... the level you ride at will mostly be determined by your metabolic fitness but the major differentiator within that group is going to be AnCap... you can even extrapolate that to the guys that make if over that 20 min hill together.. who is more likely going to take the win from that group? i repeat... Contator and Bettini come to the line... who are you going to put your money on?

tell you what... when you want to add something new to the discussion let me know.. can't believe the guy bites my whole post, and then wants to argue with me using my own word and my own arguments...???

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming

I'd argue that metabolic fitness isn't even close to "similar" in the lower amateur categories. Can't say about the top pros

Originally Posted by rmur17

look Mr. Vulcan, you posted on this thread in a derisive manner ... to my mind ... basically saying we're a bunch of idiots or posers for even worrying about FTP.

We are NOT so stupid as to think, preach, believe it's the only darned thing that matters but I'm firmly convinced that, aside from racing in which some pack-sucking crit lurker could profit, it's the most imporant single thing out there.

AWC is icing on top of icing mate ...

Originally Posted by rmur17

lWe are NOT so stupid as to think, preach, believe it's the only darned thing that matters but I'm firmly convinced that, aside from racing in which some pack-sucking crit lurker could profit, it's the most imporant single thing out there.

AWC is icing on top of icing mate ...

Originally Posted by acoggan

Urkiola2, who works with such riders, had this to say:

"..."metabolic fitness" and not Anaerobic Capacity sets the pros apart from Cat 5 riders. I would add that this is also true to differentiate world class pros from "average" Pro Tour level cyclists."

Originally Posted by doctorSpoc

i have never diminished the importance of metabolic fitness... i don't know what your are talking about here...? i've just highlighted other factors that will allow you to be a more complete rider and have more options in races and increase your chances of success in racing..

i have though, ridiculed the obsessive lengths that people will go to determine to determine FTP/1hr power to accuracies totally out of whack with what is necessary to guide their training and the idiotic, time wasting methodologies commonly used to determine it..

Originally Posted by doctorSpoc

how long are you going to argue with some who is saying the same thing as you?