Please Sign the Team Astana Petition

Cobblestones

This thread should be fun to watch (gets out the popcorn).

Bro Deal

Why have the Disco supporters moved en mass to supporting Astana? They hate Slipstream and High Road over there.

It seem strange to me that they would base what team they support on Bruyneel instead of the team's riders.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

thunder

not strange

Bruyneel is a conduit for Armstrong, a defacto if you will.

They were never in it for the cycling, they were taken by Armstrong.

kennf

That also baffles me. But wasn't The Paceline sponsored by Trek? It's understandable for Trek to want to keep up a fan base following their bikes. But the ex-Disco fans' love of a Kazak team, that Lance has nothing to do with, is bizarre. And no one gave a damn about Levi when Lance was racing. But none of that is as bizarre as people hating Slipstream. Must be the argyle.

TheDarkLord

And the irony is that in their support of Bruyneel and hate of Slipstream, they come across as supporters of doping.

Bro Deal

Tommy D. used be idolized over there. Now his name is mud. You would have expected some fans to follow Hincapie to High Road.

I wonder if the Slipstream hatred has something to do with Vaughters, since Vaughters exposed the Disco blood doping system and does not like Armstrong.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

poulidor

They are not supporting Bruyneel, they are just doping supporters as they were for the Blue Train!
They deserve that merit to be constant to support fraud.

earth_dweller

Yes somehow the allegiance to LA was switched to Bruyneel, it boggles my mind. I guess they believed the PR machine when it states that 'he's the best DS ...ever'.

Also not all, I'm not even sure if it's a majority now, of the paceline posters are American so this infatuation of Bruyneel crosses country lines.

I just don't get it.

Bro Deal

As TTF says, there is definitely a segment of Armstrong supportors who project their nationalistic views through Armstrong's accomplishments. I think this forms one of his more despicable wings of support. I can understand the gullible and the stupid who get sucked into the lie and either cannot see that they were wrong or refuse to admit it. But the nationalistic ones, best exemplified by CAMPYBOB on DP, are amoral.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

kennf

Oh it's all about Vaughters, and mirrors the recent comments by FLandis. They (Landis included) feel that Vaughters, by espousing a dope-free environment, is impliedly accusing all the other teams of doping. Plus, I'm sure people are still pissed about the IM exchange with Frankie (getting way off topic here). But Vaughters has been very careful with his statements, and I don't think there's a way to do what he's doing without ruffling feathers. But once again, it proves the Landis handlers are asleep at the switch when he publicly ridicules Slpstream and Highroad. I mean, why not just tattoo your forehead with the word "doper."

I think Hincapie is still liked by the Disco folks, despite the team he is on.

(Multiple edits 'cause I'm home with the flu and can't type worth a crap)

Bro Deal

Exactly. Reading the Paceline, I found myself thinking, "WTF! Bruyneel has fans?"

It seems so much more natural that they would follow Hincapie or Tommy D., or maybe change to a rider like Tyler Farrer. Bizarre.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Leafer

Simple association - to admit that Bruyneel was running a doping team would be to tacitly admit that Armstrong was doping and therefore the illusion (delusion, really) that Bruyneel is "the bestest, most cleanest DS evah!" must be maintained no matter what evidence comes to light.

But what's really amazing to me is just the degree of dogged determination that's spent in reinforcing their own and each other's conviction that Bruyneel is the good guy and everyone who criticizes him is bad. It's really quite impressive. Disturbing, yes, but impressive nonetheless.

thoughtforfood

I deleted this post because I ended up only talking about Armstrong (which isn't really on topic). I will repost for honesty's sake:

They have this vision of the US that dictates that you are not allowed to attack someone wearing a flag. That if you somehow look "All-American" ala Armstrong, and especially if you go to France and win, that you are above reproach. We have weak drug testing in sports, and only really get pissed off about athletes from other teams/countries that are our rivals. It is a mindset constructed by others and fed to the willing. Of true individuality they have little comprehension. Principles are trumped by the best looking group mentality. Bruyneel is unknown to most of that group in reality, and most don't even know what an Astana is because their knowledge of cycling was LA. I work with guys who see him, and say "that's my man." I chuckle because the last time they were on a bike, it had coaster brakes.


Those left who support Astana/Bruyneel are simply the people in that mindless set who actually know something about cycling. The Armstrong phenomenon was always about national pride even to them. It really would have been little different if Armstrong were from any country though it was exacerbated by the fact that we had gone to war in Iraq, which was unpopular around the world, and we as a nation were defensive about that.


There are thousands of other factors, but the reality is that those who love him do so with either a misguided belief that he was clean, or don't care either way.


I hate cheats irrespective of what their background is. I cannot stand Michael Jordan (and I bleed Carolina Blue) because in his '95 comeback season, the Bulls were playing the Hornets. With just a few seconds left in the final game of the series, Jordan fouled a shooter who was going for a lay-up under the basket. The refs didn’t call it. After the game, Jordan was asked about it, and he said he fouled because he knew they wouldn't call it. I never rooted for him again....of course if they had been playing the Lakers the story would be different...shit; we are all pliable in terms of morals, aren't we?

I guess the difference with Armstrong (who I used to scream for) is that he is so adamant about defending his lie. That and his "I did it alone" mentality make him a real prick in my eyes.


I guess I just don't like the guy and they do?

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If this van is a'rockin, don't come a'knockin

Crankyfeet

Has anyone thought of the possibility that the Paceline is a fake forum with many fake handles (that have a couple of Trek employees behind them)?

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Originally posted by Frigo's Luggage...

"[Calling him] 'dickcheese' is the insult of a master. Some people work in oil, some people work in clay. He [thoughtforfood] works in profanity. Open your mind and enjoy its beauty."