Page 3 - Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

13-02.-2008, 06:28 AM	#31
Aquamarinos Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 87	Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!! great post Cranky, I agree 100%

13-02.-2008, 06:29 AM

#32

helmutRoole2

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkLord

Helmut, what Bro said above is why I wouldn't mind Discotana being banned from all GTs. I guess I have been turned to this opinion after (a) Victor Conte's admission of systematic widespread coverups of positive tests in professional sports and (b) what cyclingheroes has posted about UCI. So, that's what makes it unfair between JB and other teams, and that's why UCI is fighting to get Discotana invited to TdF, and that's why I would rather that ASO flips them off and doesn't invite JB's boys.

I can see that, but still, who's to say other teams weren't paying off the UCI too. It's all speculation. Clearly there was doping going on, but how much by which teams at a given race is anyone's guess.

I'd like see the whole Blue Train derail if just to shut their fans up. Oh Lord, some of the mythological stories they bought into to justify the performances. What did bobke state? Something like, he saw an x-ray and Armstrong had a heart the size of football? I mean for fuck sake, which seems more plausible? A man doping his ass off or a man with a heart the size of an elephant? Please.

Anyway, back on topic. The bigger they come, the harder they fall. One of these days indisputable evidence will park itself atop of Armstrong and his Johnny Appleseed image will do a 180 and everyone will love hating him like Britney Sprears. I'd bet that thought keeps him awake at night.

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13-02.-2008, 06:32 AM

#33

thoughtforfood

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crankyfeet

The question is, if a rider is found to be doping, what is the punishment? If you exclude the team (indefinitely), then by example you are going to have teams (and sponsors) more vigilant about monitoring their riders. But how much of Vinos doping were the Astana sponsors responsible for? How much was the team management responsible for? We need to go beyond just blaming and penalizing the rider who fails the test, but there is a limit on how much the team can do to make sure their rider is squeaky clean. If the team gets rid of the rider and sacks the DS and other support management, isn't that enough to give them a chance to prove that things have changed? Cycling needs to support its sponsors. Astanas don't grow on trees, especially in these turbulent times.

What is really needed IMHO is a step-by-step system of actions and consequences. In this mudfight over who wields the most power, the application of consequences is arbitrary/subjective.

Apologies to the OP for my soap box rant slightly off topic.

No, on topic to the extent that it appears that we have de facto set of consequences in action right now.

I also agree that the sponsor and team should be held accountable. Maybe along the lines of 1 doping offense, punish rider. 2 doping offenses, rider and team, 2 doping offenses, rider, team and sponsor. That will create an atmosphere within the team, and require the DS's and others to actually police thier riders. A freaking DS should know where all of his riders are at all times in the first place. The "oh, he told us he was in Mexico" shit is transparently dishonest. A DS doesn't have that many people to keep up with, and you can bet your ass that they all knew what their riders were taking.

Starring to rant myself...I am just fed up with the denial of everyone involved.

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13-02.-2008, 06:35 AM

#34

Bro Deal

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

What did bobke state? Something like, he saw an x-ray and Armstrong had a heart the size of football?

Bobke's latest posts on DP have it being the size of a pumpkin.

In about two years it will have grown to be the size of a beach ball.

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13-02.-2008, 06:36 AM

#35

thoughtforfood

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtforfood

I just want to see a clean fucking race one summer and be able to cheer and discuss the tactics of the day with my friends. I want to talk about racing, and watch racing, and think about racing, and maybe even race a little myself. People like the entire group of shit heads that made their living from USPS and Discovery make me want to hurl things because they fucked up the sport beyond comprehension.

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13-02.-2008, 06:38 AM	#36
Aquamarinos Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 87	Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!! Why are you bringing LA into this??? He has zero to do with the "new Astana", yet he gets in every discussions here!!! We all know he doped, just like everyone else doped. He is out from the sport. The End of a bad story.

13-02.-2008, 06:40 AM

#37

Aquamarinos

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtforfood

You'll probably be dead before that happens...
(sorry no offence mentioned!), just sarcasm...

13-02.-2008, 06:43 AM

#38

thoughtforfood

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquamarinos

Why are you bringing LA into this??? He has zero to do with the "new Astana", yet he gets in every discussions here!!!

We all know he doped, just like everyone else doped. He is out from the sport. The End of a bad story.

Why, because the sport is still suffering from a single rider taking doping to the extreme. That guy paid a lot of money to ensure he was chemically superior to everyone else, and set a precident that is still in place with his former DS. Bruyneel was involved in the whole thing. He was complicit. Now he moves to another team who were the biggest emparrassment in the cycling world last year to what? Clean it up? I didn't mention Armstrong's name, you did.(I was actually talking about Bruyneel) But now that you ask, here you go.

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13-02.-2008, 06:43 AM

#39

thoughtforfood

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquamarinos

You'll probably be dead before that happens...
(sorry no offence mentioned!), just sarcasm...

The one constant in life, you die.

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13-02.-2008, 06:56 AM

#40

TheDarkLord

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtforfood

I have asked this question before - to what extent does the sponsor control what goes on in the team? I don't know the answer to this.

If the sponsor is relatively unaware of what goes on in the team (i.e. they only interact with the team manager as to what is going on, but don't directly control anything beyond that), then I'm not sure that it is fair to take direct action against the sponsor itself. The main change I would advocate is to go higher up to the team manager at the very first doping case. Right now, the riders are the sacrificial lambs, and team managers act outraged and pretend as if they had no clue that riders were doping, etc., which really in most cases is just a bunch of BS. If the team managers are held accountable for the busted riders, then it might force them to take anti-doping more seriously, and maybe try to monitor the riders better (for example to avoid a Sinkewitz).

13-02.-2008, 06:56 AM

#41

Crankyfeet

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtforfood

I'm with you on that... but I think the only way we will be sure of no doping... will be if it is nearly imposssible to dope due to testing or quarantining or whatever (this may be impossible).

As long as people can dope and get away with it, people will dope IMO, no matter how many affidavits and pledges they sign. The less people that dope as well, the more rewards there are for doping. It's an unfortunate Catch 22.

13-02.-2008, 07:14 AM	#42
Aquamarinos Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 87	Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!! Sorry TFF, I ment intended... Hope you got it anyway what I ment, sorry for my bad English! The problem here is where do you draw the line? How do you know which teams are doping or not? Impossible IMO...

13-02.-2008, 09:19 AM

#43

helmutRoole2

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crankyfeet

As long as people can dope and get away with it, people will dope IMO, no matter how many affidavits and pledges they sign. The less people that dope as well, the more rewards there are for doping. It's an unfortunate Catch 22.

+1... And, at what point does it get too expensive to police the sport?

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13-02.-2008, 09:40 AM	#44
cyclingheroes Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,444	Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!! I have spoken with Cadel after the presentation. He thinks the Tour is gonna be a very open race and that it would suit him if Astana would start because the other teams will force them to take control over the race. He also said that in the end it isn't that important because if he wants to win the Tour he has to be the best rider. He said the Tour is a lot about saving energy, it would be nice if Astana has to spend a lot of energy by controlling the race in the early stages. I will publish the full interview with Cade on CH later this week (and two more with Popo and McEwen) __________________ Cycling news, picture galleries & live coverage www.cyclingheroes.info

13-02.-2008, 10:18 AM

#45

TheDarkLord

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

+1... And, at what point does it get too expensive to police the sport?

The first step is to root out corruption in UCI. If that is done, and a somewhat reliable biological passport type system is implemented, along with somewhat draconian measures for busted riders and their teams, one can at least reduce the extent of doping significantly (at least that is my hope). Yes, dopers are always one step ahead of the testers, but that is the best that you can do. Unfortunately, people are always greedy for money, and so I don't know if the very first step can be achieved...

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