ToC

poulidor

I could add there were probably a monetary arrangement between them. Levi can easily make some money for a such victory in US.
A winning-winning agreement had probably been settled.

thunder

such a whining bitch tho, wheelsucked gesink all the way up that climb.

plectrum

FS: Miller, Zabriskie and Cancellara are TT specialists. On dope Miller would beat Levi and would challenge Cancellara as would riders such as Wiggins in prologues.

The performances of Miller in 2001-3 were much stronger than now and this difference can be put down to non doping now.

I am not sure why Cancellara didn't perform better but maybe the rain had an affect.
In terms of Slipstream racing clean well I would like to point otu that they are one of the only teams truly speaking out anti doping.

Many other teams such as Caisse, Saunier, Liquigas, Rabobank stay very quiet and even CSC & Astana just state how great the Dams' passport is rather than actually saying doping is wrong.

There is no way Slipstream are dirty, they have too much to lose. If their business model works i.e. running a team clean with clever marketing rather than being wholely dependent on results then they will be a long term team and should cause a change in dsirection amongst other cyclist.

The more cyclists that stop doping the more obviously it will be that certain individuals are the true dopees and then the UCI & WADA stealth SWAT team can jump!

thunder

no one knows where Cancellara, and Millar and DZ and LL are on their individual form curve and how deep they were willing to go in the tt. If Cancellara has not spent any time on his chrono bike over winter, how could he be expected to be at 100%.

One suspects LL's motivation was higher than most.

plectrum

I suspect Cancellara didn't feel up for it, but although LL motivation was high it would have been equal to Miller who could have taken the frist big race of the year for Slipstream. LL comes from Astana, Astana are not allowed to race the big races... go figure.

Yes it all has to do with the past, not just Astana's more over a combination about how people feel about Discovery and Astana combined.

I'm very pleased to see 1. Slipstream 2. Astana in the Team GC as I do not feel in anyway Astana is a clean team

thunder

ofcourse Astana are not clean

plectrum

Indeed, interms of training i think Slipstream has had a really good pre-season. i read a 12 page article on Slipstream in a UK cycling mag and they seemed like a very tight knit content team.

poulidor

On a such race there is no reason to dope for well-thinking people only idiot could do, even JB would not allowed his riders to dope. The risk are so high.
All Astana BS PR would come down... and I think the kazak president would cut the JB's balls !

Or maybe they are more stupid and addicted than I believe.

I think we will see a new omerta but that kind of ormerta will be against dopers. A lot of riders and teams know the risk, a scandal and the team is over. The Bassons are going to spank the Armstrong.
The Revenge is on!

fscyclist

You are correct, but I don't remember any big TT wins since, but there may be reasons for that.

hawkeye87

Levi has always been a strong time trialist.

I know he finished in the Top Ten in the 2005 TDF.

But is it my imagination or is he ripping up time trials and some of these races since joining Discovery.

I had always liked him but have to admit that since last year I cheer against him more.

Bro Deal

Maybe, but CSC is an american company. Some of the corporate big wigs are likely to be at the race. The ToC is probably pretty important to the team. It would be hard to pay back a non-monetary arrangement since Astana won't be at many of the big races this season.

Cancellara might have just had a bad day.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Bro Deal

Levi has been good at shorter, 20 - 30K ITTs for the last few years. I don't think he challenged for the win in longer distances before last year's TdF. I may be wrong about that. I agree that he took a big step up after rejoining Bruyneel.

__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

fscyclist

I hope you are right about Slipstream, but I'm going to reserve judgement. There are some riders on their team I believe are clean and always have been clean (Pate). There are others that we know were dirty (Millar) and many others we are pretty sure were doping...heavily. How reformed these individuals are, I don't know, but I'm certainly not going to say "There is no way Slipstream is dirty.." given the track record of pro cycling and the players on that team. I hope Vaughters intentions are good, and even if they are, he only has so much control over these riders.

Really, the point I was making is I don't find it fair to jump on Levi and call him a doper for a good performance in what really is a POS race in February, but no one mentions that the 2nd and 3rd place finishes were by Slipstream. No one gets a free pass in my book.

One last point that I think is worth mentioning, which I've also stated before, is that I believe long term doping has long term effects. Someone that has doped for years has been able to train and race at a much higher level than a non-doper and change their physiology to some degree. When you read interviews by past champions they speak of how completing your first TdF really does change your body and that completing something of that duration and intensity makes you much stronger. Well, what about completing it on dope at an even higher intensity, or training for years at a level you never would have been capable? It seems this would have the same effect. I know I can't prove (or disprove) this as no study has been performed or will be, but it makes sense (to me). The point of that is I believe cheaters like Millar will always benefit from their dope use even if they have stopped using. Cycling won't be a level playing field until the doping generation leaves.

Crankyfeet

Yes...take a look at his 2006 TdF TT's for Gerolsteiner. He finished like 3-4 minutes behind Cadel on each one.