Landis' last gasp

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

I still like FLandis. Yeah, I'm a hypocrite. I like his attitude. With exploits like trading a yellow jersy for a beer on the way down from Alpe d'Huez, he would have been hugely popular in the U.S. among cycling fans. He was a much warmer and wilder personality than the cold, arrogant meanness of Armstrong.

He played this wrong. Hamilton should have served as an example that the UCI was willing to scapegoat select individuals and that the consequences of fighting it out to the end and losing would be severe. With the tip offs that Postal was getting about random testing, he must have known that the UCI was corrupt.

His wiki defense backfired. He would have been better served by making his initial denials and then letting the process go forward quietly. If his defense team could find a serious error then he would eventually skate on the charge, but if not he would not have been left backed into a corner as he is now.

If he really wanted to go public, an attack on the anti-doping apparatus was a bad target. He should have targeted the systemic nature of doping in pro cycling. Saying that he was not doing anything his rivals were not doing is more believable than claiming he didn't do it, especially since most of his rivals had been prevented from racing the Tour a month earlier. It is also a more sympathetic position.

FLandis must be angry as hell. Aside from seeing the UCI spend money to defend Armstrong's dope use, they are now assuring the public that Contador is clean. Pereiro was on the same doping program as Landis the year before, yet he gets the title that was rightfully won by FLandis. Judging by what happened to Hamilton, the UCI will black list Landis in europe.

The starting date of his suspension is bullshit. He gave up several hundred thousand dollars by not collecting post-Tour race appearance fees. There appears to be no clear rules on when a suspension starts. It does not seem to be too hard to make a simple rule that it starts after the last race you did after testing positive. He is lucky that CAS dismissed the idea of starting the suspension after the 2007 PB100.

Maybe I'm just vindictive, but if I were FLandis and the UCI was doing whatever it could to prevent me from working the last few years of my career, I'd blow the lid off of Postal, Phonak, and everyone else I knew anything about. He's already probably near bankruptcy. He is judgement proof if he gets sued for libel. It is also the only way to salvation.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

I still like FLandis. Yeah, I'm a hypocrite. . .

Originally Posted by Crankyfeet

Bro - that is what YOU WANT to happen IMHO. You forget that 95% of Landis' friends are in pro cycling. No matter what would eventuate from his blowing the lid off doping... every single one of those 95% of friends would hate his guts for the rest of his life. And judging by Joe Papp's case study... the other 5%, his family and friends... and most of the general public as well... would even think less of him IMO... except for Bro Deal and a few others fighting doping in cycling.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

What friends in cycling? Where are all of Hamilton's friends? They sure did not help Tyler get back into the top level racing scene. FLandis is likely to end up a pariah just like Tyler is. Maybe he can get lucky and find a nutter like Michael Ball to give him a contract, but he'll still be racing in the backwaters of cycling for an owner with anger management problems who might flake out on his contract at any moment. Which friend will give him a job back in europe?

The number of people in the U.S. who would be personally affected by FLandis telling all is extremely small. We're are talking like half a dozen people. Will it really matter if Leipheimer does not send him an X-mas card?

Originally Posted by Crankyfeet

Not a pariah amongst fellow pros for risking everything to take on the UCI and losing.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

What are those pros going to do for him?

Originally Posted by fscyclist

You said it in your post - he got lucky.
Remember, he got his time on a relatively benign stage (a stage where McEwen brought in the peloton in a bunch sprint) where his breakaway group put on 30 minutes over the peloton. He went on to lose almost all that time in the following days. Hardly the mark of a Tour champion.

Originally Posted by Crankyfeet

At every stage of the strategy... Flandis was focussed on getting out of the shit-hole and resuming his career unblemished. If he had a crystal ball that foretold this future... he might have adjusted his strategy.

Originally Posted by Trev_S

Not quite.

Pereiro was sitting in amongst the GC contendors until stage 11.
Stage 10 GC results Landis was the best place GC rider at 4:45 down on the Yellow Jersey. Pereiro was only 6:42 down on the Yellow.

Pereiro blew out on Stage 11 loosing 26mins (a HC cat, followed by 4 off cat 1 climbs, with hilltop finish). The 3rd climb out of the 5 Pereiro went backwards and finished the day 26mins behind Landis. Now sitting 28mins back on the GC.
Stage 13, (a typical breakaway type stage) Pereiro got into a break with Voight, Chavanel, Quinziato & Grivko.
Pereiro was the highest in the GC of the riders in the break.
Landis & Phonak either screwed it up or where happy to loose the Yellow Jersey. They allowed Pereiro to now be a major threat.
Stage 15, Pereiro drops 2:50 to Landis given Landis the race lead.
Stage 16, Landis Blows up and looses approx 8mins. Pereiro retakes the lead.
Stage 17, Landis goes it solo to regain lost time. Pereiro holds the lead by 30secs.
Stage 19 TT, Landis retakes the lead.

Pereiro deserves the 06 TDF win.
He still had to beat Kloden, Sastre, Evans & Menchov.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

I think FLandis concentrated on saving his TdF victory rather than resuming his career. It is understandable. With his hip he did not know if he would be able to continue as a pro.

If he just wanted to resume his career he could have made a deal with McQuaid. McQuaid called FLandis, told him he was a good guy and just had the misfortune of getting caught. Right then he probably could have struck some sort of understanding that if he rolled over his return would not be opposed by the UCI.

Originally Posted by Crankyfeet

Again... fair point. Although I am not sure that it was all about the TdF. Spending the rest of your life as a convicted doper is not nearly so dignified as spending it as a retired cyclist who never tested positive. Professional sports people imagine basking in their achievements in their retirement. Perhaps fallaciously... but it is a common psychology in my experience. Being a convicted doper is a hard label to carry around for the rest of your life... no matter how much McQuaid likes you more. But the TdF victory would have been a huge obsession like you say... and qualifies as a huge achievement to bask in. He seems like he was trying to prove he could match Lance for much of his road career... IMO.

Is this McQuaid-Landis conversation you mention public knowledge? It seems to be not a conversation that the UCI would like to made public is it? Basically... You're a good guy doper who just got unlucky by getting caught.

Where did this come from? Landis' book? Not doubting it... I just missed it.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

It is in Landis' book, but I seem to recall Floyd talking about it before the book. I just googled this:

“I’m sure you weren’t doing anything that everyone else wasn’t doing,” McQuaid said, according to the book. “You’re just the unlucky one who got caught.” Landis says McQuaid advised him to “accept a suspension because there’s no way you can win.” When Landis said he would defend himself through the arbitration process established under the World Anti-Doping Code – a system that heavily favors the prosecutors – McQuaid replied, “You’ll end up penniless.” Indeed, Landis has said that his defense has cost nearly $2 million to date.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

I still like FLandis. Yeah, I'm a hypocrite. I like his attitude. With exploits like trading a yellow jersy for a beer on the way down from Alpe d'Huez, he would have been hugely popular in the U.S. among cycling fans. He was a much warmer and wilder personality than the cold, arrogant meanness of Armstrong.

He played this wrong. Hamilton should have served as an example that the UCI was willing to scapegoat select individuals and that the consequences of fighting it out to the end and losing would be severe. With the tip offs that Postal was getting about random testing, he must have known that the UCI was corrupt.

His wiki defense backfired. He would have been better served by making his initial denials and then letting the process go forward quietly. If his defense team could find a serious error then he would eventually skate on the charge, but if not he would not have been left backed into a corner as he is now.

If he really wanted to go public, an attack on the anti-doping apparatus was a bad target. He should have targeted the systemic nature of doping in pro cycling. Saying that he was not doing anything his rivals were not doing is more believable than claiming he didn't do it, especially since most of his rivals had been prevented from racing the Tour a month earlier. It is also a more sympathetic position.

FLandis must be angry as hell. Aside from seeing the UCI spend money to defend Armstrong's dope use, they are now assuring the public that Contador is clean. Pereiro was on the same doping program as Landis the year before, yet he gets the title that was rightfully won by FLandis. Judging by what happened to Hamilton, the UCI will black list Landis in europe.

The starting date of his suspension is bullshit. He gave up several hundred thousand dollars by not collecting post-Tour race appearance fees. There appears to be no clear rules on when a suspension starts. It does not seem to be too hard to make a simple rule that it starts after the last race you did after testing positive. He is lucky that CAS dismissed the idea of starting the suspension after the 2007 PB100.

Maybe I'm just vindictive, but if I were FLandis and the UCI was doing whatever it could to prevent me from working the last few years of my career, I'd blow the lid off of Postal, Phonak, and everyone else I knew anything about. He's already probably near bankruptcy. He is judgement proof if he gets sued for libel. It is also the only way to salvation.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

It is in Landis' book, but I seem to recall Floyd talking about it before the book. I just googled this:

“I’m sure you weren’t doing anything that everyone else wasn’t doing,” McQuaid said, according to the book. “You’re just the unlucky one who got caught.” Landis says McQuaid advised him to “accept a suspension because there’s no way you can win.” When Landis said he would defend himself through the arbitration process established under the World Anti-Doping Code – a system that heavily favors the prosecutors – McQuaid replied, “You’ll end up penniless.” Indeed, Landis has said that his defense has cost nearly $2 million to date.