Kloden farked again

thoughtforfood

Either way, suggesting that Lance's "focus" on the TdF was responsible for him winning 7 in a row is somewhat true. He focused all of his doping, training, and team on that one goal. I was just trying to be funny....and it appears I failed..

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If this van is a'rockin, don't come a'knockin

Crankyfeet

As in just about all other sports, the number of people devoting their lives to the sport (true professionals) has increased many times over since the sixties. In golf for example... there were only about 15 guys who were true professionals during the sixties, devoting their lives to it. Nearly all the major championship winners were shared within this small group. Even then, the greatest golfer, Jack Nicklaus, usually took about 4-5 months off golf completely over winter. Nowadays there are probably a thousand golfers globally who are full-time on their game. The competition is that much harder. Though this may be a bad analogy as the model is disturbed at present by a freak called Tiger Woods.

Also... in yesteryear on the cycling circuit... cyclists were more likely to race in the full program of events (as I understand). Nowadays... teams have different guys focussing on different events. If the tour forced everyone to race in every event... the best cyclists would have many more victories. But at present if the best cyclist raced every event... he would be disadvantaged against a guy who was only specifically targetting the event of that weekend.

Just my 2c.

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Originally posted by Frigo's Luggage...

"[Calling him] 'dickcheese' is the insult of a master. Some people work in oil, some people work in clay. He [thoughtforfood] works in profanity. Open your mind and enjoy its beauty."

limerickman

The premise of my point was - if the benefits of EPO are so much more significant than older forms of dope - I would have thought that the current bunch of riders would have been, at least, as successful as their predecessors (if they all used amphetamines in the 60's, for example, the 60's field would be nullified......ditto the late 1990's field with EPO : but compare the palmares of the greatest rider of the 1960's to the greatest rider of the 1990's : the 1960's rider is way way ahead in terms of wins throughout the season/career, despite having used a less powerful enhancer).

I go with Plectrum on this...................my guess is that the likes of Merckx/Hinault/Kelly were simply more talented, hardworking, better riders
than the guys today.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

limerickman

That is a fair analogy and a very astute point that you make.






For sure the sport has changed dramatically : Hinault for one reckons that it's a lot easier to make a great living today as a cyclist than it was in his day.
(in his day, only the top rider got a salary - his domestiques received minimum wage and, if their leader won, a share of the leaders spoils).
These days riders get a guaranteed wage - and not have to win to earn that wage.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

mortimer99

The problem is that different people get different benefits from EPO, some it may enhance 2% some it may enhance 10%.

jimmypop

Blatantly stolen from Strategy at DPF:

earth_dweller

snap crackle pop..... What's that sound?

It's the brain of the Discatana fans imploding....

Bro Deal

Cool. Instead of getting his doctors from ONCE. Bruyneel can now get them from T-Mobile.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Powerful Pete

Lim, I think that the training and leveling of the field has a lot to do with the absence of dominating champions that we had in the past. Most riders got travel/hotel bills paid if anything, and spent the entire off-season working for a living rather than preparing for the coming season! Which then left the few captains and their chosen few paid riders to be ready for the forthcoming year.

Also, I think we often forget about the other excellent riders in the past who were just a step below the campionissimi. There were plenty of guys who could and did win hugely important races in spite of the dominance of the big boys - think of guys like Guerra, Magni, Koblet, etc to name three of the multitude... these were people who could win a world championship and occasional GT.

What I would say is the glory days (1950s), when you had a handful of real contenders for a Giro or Tour win are gone... but that could be said already of the time when Eddy was cleaning things up...

Sorry, I digress, or rather ramble...

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De Rosa Planet
Campagnolo Per Sempre!
PAOLO BETTINI CAMPIONE DEL MONDO x 2!

Bro Deal

False alarm. The middle of the night express shipment of medical supplies was actually vitamins. Kloden says so.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

TheDarkLord

Is he credible? Who is going to take him at his word?

Crankyfeet

Especially when you can buy vitamins from a local drugstore. Why would you need an express shipment overnight, before a race, I presume?

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Originally posted by Frigo's Luggage...

"[Calling him] 'dickcheese' is the insult of a master. Some people work in oil, some people work in clay. He [thoughtforfood] works in profanity. Open your mind and enjoy its beauty."

nns1400

Take up fishing....

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If the shoe fits, buy it.

Crankyfeet

Hope you got a lot of funds when that subpoena from the AIS hits you...

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Originally posted by Frigo's Luggage...

"[Calling him] 'dickcheese' is the insult of a master. Some people work in oil, some people work in clay. He [thoughtforfood] works in profanity. Open your mind and enjoy its beauty."