Tubular vs tires in road bikes.

Solanog

Hi, do people still use tubulars in their road bikes? Are they use in competition?
Y have both wheelsets for tubular and for tire and frankly I like how tubulars work much more than tires. They seem to give a softer ride and also less resistance to roll. I reach higher speeds with tubulars than with tires, riding at roughly the same pressures, 100-120psi.
So why it seems that tubulars an endangered specie?
What are the advantages of tires? Tubulars?

Powerful Pete

Clinchers (what you refer to as tires) are more convenient to change with flats and tend to be a bit cheaper. Everyone recognises that tubulars are better, but the difference is relatively minor, so most are willing to part with less money and deal with less hassle to install and maintain clinchers.

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kdelong

Using tubular tires requires a lot of dedication and patience for only slightly improved performance IMHO. It seems that only racers use them anymore. Most recreational cyclists don't want the hassles that come with tubulars. We also don't have a van filled with new wheels and a mecahnic following us when we ride, so we need a tire set that we can repair ourselves on the side of the road.

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Solanog

It's been a while since I don't ride on tubulars, well it's been a while since I don't ride the road bike but compared to the Mountain bike I enjoy it a lot more. This year I'm willing to ride more on the road bike. I'm riding on clinchers now but miss the tubulars, they are more comfortable to ride. What I do when I ride on tubulars is carry a spare or two one in the extra bottle cage and the other tied under the saddle. I unwrap the tubular from the rim and kept it for repair, install the new one (sometimes preglued) and keep on riding, it takes less time to do this than to repair a clincher. Then I repair the tubular at home, which is a little time consuming and sometimes the tubular cannot be repaired since the hole is to big (glass or piece of metal destroys the thread).
I was willing to buy a couple of tubulars and try my luck, if roads are clean they are great if not I'm almost sure I'll get a flat. Clinchers seem to be more puncture resistant than tubulars in this case.

artemidorus

Clinchers are easier to use, cheaper, and, most importantly, the best clinchers with latex inner tubes are now faster than tubulars (lower rolling resistance). Tubular rim/tyre combinations are still the lightest, so they are still the best for hill climbs.

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alienator

There's very little difference. I ride tubies every day, and they're no more challenging or effort intensive than clinchers. If there's a benefit to tubies, it's that you can ride them at a lower pressure without pinchflatting, thereby achieving a bit better comfort. Outside of that, choose which ever makes your nipples dance.

As for which is faster, there hasn't been any test done yet that conclusively demonstrates which is faster in any or all conditions.

artemidorus

Hair splitting.

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alienator

And most of what you said was personal preference based on zero fact. It's absolutely true that there has been no definitive test of cRR. If you can find the definitive test, please, point it out. Maybe it doesn't sit well with your presumed ideas of the differences between the two tire types. If that's how your roll, fine. I'll wait on a test that conclusively, if that's even possible, shows the difference.

Until then, you and your allegations of hair splitting can piss off.

artemidorus

Touchy today, my friend. No matter.
I have seen cRR data appearing to show clinchers coming out on top. I am not qualified to know whether the testing methodology was adequate, but I'll try to find it again.

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artemidorus

Here you go - I'll show you my sources. So I'm afraid you're wrong - my comment was based on data, properly or improperly obtained. I've never used tubulars, and am in no hurry to do so.

More information can be obtained from other pages of the sites.

http://www.biketechreview.com/tires...esting_rev6.pdf

http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/0...cher-specs.html

http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/0...ular-specs.html

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alienator

You have three sets of data done on smooth surfaces. All that says is that on smooth surfaces, clinchers may be faster. The data doesn't say:

1. Is the slope of the cRR for each tire monotonic?
2. Do the slopes of any tires cross?
3. Do the slopes of clinchers and tubulars cross when surfaces vary in roughness, and are they monotonic when the surfaces vary?
4. How does the slope differential between a given tubular and a given clincher vary with inflation pressure?

Those are just a few of things that have yet to be defined. Until those things are defined, there is no definitive conclusion re: Crr. So, on the hair splitting angle, I'd say there's no hair splitting being done, but some folks are sure picking hairs that ain't even there yet. The rest is purely a matter of personal preference. That's it. I could care less whether I'm on clinchers or on tubulars: they both function fine for me.

So, where is that hair splitting again?

Peter@vecchios

More tubulars today than in the last coupla decades. Probably because of the huge amount of carbon wheels out there, most of which are tubular.

Tubular's cost(gluing) is what you pay for some safety(don't come off if you flat, if glued on right), wee bit lighter 'package', better cornering due to their rounder profile and more compliant sidewalls, less punctures, all things being equal due to no pinch flats.

We sell many and still build tubular wheelsets for everyday riders. I use tubulars everyday, see no compelling reason to change.

Gluing is not hard, repairing tubulars is not hard BUT they are not the slap on and air, type tires of clinchers.

Solanog

I glue them as the instructions on both tire and glue package (basically the same) I've never had a tubular come off, of course I'm a recreational rider I don't compete. But here where I live I ride along twisty, sinous and irregular roads (lots of hills) where you can reach fairly high speeds (around 55mph) and I've never been afraid of a tubular snaping off the rim. They are a hard to take off the rim when properly glued, even when I've had to install the spare on the road and not regluing they were well attached.
My personal preference goes to tubulars for comfort and I feel they roll better. I didn't use high end tubulars just entry level Vittorias and some other similar brands in the same price range. The clinchers I've used are maybe a little step up in quality some mid range type.

oldbobcat

After riding on nothing but clinchers for the last 10 years I got nostalgic, cleaned up my old wheels and glued on a pair. I'll post my impressions as soon as the sand is off the roads.

One thing going for clinchers is that I didn't have a single flat all year. That included well over 2000 miles on a pair of Pro2 Races.

My last experience on quality tubulars was when I blew two Vittoria Pave CGs that I'd been saving all summer. At the end of their first ride I took a detour on some gravel through a nest of goat heads and had to walk the rest of the way home. There were just too many holes. If they were clinchers it would have been easy to pull the thorns and replace two $4 tubes.

When I road tubulars exclusively I remember spending late evenings patching, devising boots from old silks, and sewing. In the wetness of New England the stitching would rot. Then, around the early 80s, the cheap "training" tubulars started coming without chafing strips between the stitching and the butyl tubes. As the stitching came loose the tube would poke through until the thread cut a hole in it. Then there were those 430g winter trainers that Doug Dale sold us for 9.99 and rode like an International Harvester.

I could write a humor piece for the back page of Road Bike Action--Bad Tubulars I Have Suffered, and the Great Ones I Trashed.