Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?

Jens Müller

Pat schrieb:

> What's this "non-cyclist" stuff? I don't know if I am or not. Too
> many semantics here for me. But the snow is off and the weather is
> warming. The ski slope up the road even closes tomorrow. So I
> started getting my bike out of winter storage.

"Winter storage"? Are you also getting your car out of "winter storage"?

Bob

On Apr 5, 10:13*am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Apr 5, 1:58*am, Bob <hunr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 4, 9:27*am, Pat <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote:
>
> > > The bikers in the group say we need bike lanes and camera enforcement
> > > and this and that. *That's a HUGE investment for a relatively small
> > > group of people. *That public investment could probably go for better
> > > uses.
>
> > There's a bit of crossposting going on but judging by your "bikers in
> > the group" phrase I'm guessing that you are posting from the
> > alt.planning.urban group. Just as a point of information, there are
> > probably at least as many cyclists vehemently opposed to bike lanes as
> > there are bike lane boosters.
>
> > Regards,
> > Bob Hunt
>
> I've said there are TWO OPTIONS: BIKE LANES or ENFORCED 20MPH LANES.
>
> But it won't happen before we destroy the world. What we are lacking
> is POLITICAL WILL!

That you can only think of two options doesn't mean that only two
options exist. No matter how loudly you shout your opinion it is just
that, your opinion.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Jens Müller

Pat schrieb:
> That's why bikes and horse and pedestrians are banned from highways.

a) What is your definition of "highway"? The meaning as in "National
Highway System" or as in "highway code", i.e. "public street"?

b) What country are you talking about?

Bob

On Apr 5, 4:34*pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:

>
> I am going to shock Bob Hunt by agreeing with him.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman

It's actually not that big of a shock. I figured we would have to
agree on something--- eventually. <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Tom Keats

In article <47F83528.33527828@comcast.net>,
"Scott M. Kozel" <kozelsm@comcast.net> writes:

>> >> Real cyclists DO NOT refer to themselves as "bikers". Duh!
>> >
>> > Who defines what is a "proper cyclist" or "real cyclist"?

Humpty Dumpty.

"I don't know what you mean by `glory,'" Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you
don't -- till I tell you. I meant `there's a nice
knock-down argument for you!'"

"But glory doesn't mean `a nice knock-down argument,'"
Alice objected.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather
scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean --
neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make
words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be
master -- that's all."
-- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass

It seems to me the bicycle rider should be master of
his or her own self-definitions.

>> If you have to ask, you are obviously not one. Here is a hint - their
>> single track vehicles are NOT powered by V-Twin engines.
>
> The point is, that YOU don't get to define words for everybody.
>
> The dictionary definitions trump your static worldview.

Especially the One True English Dictionary (Cambridge University's,
of course.)

Anyways, so much for frantic semantic antics. I've gotta
be a bicycle rider and go to get stuff before visitors arrive
for Saturday night dominoes, tunes, oblations, snacks and
various other entertainments & indulgences. Would that I could
ride to the Cajun restaurant for a take-out order of frittered
catfish fillets, cornmeal-frittered crawdad tails, hush puppies
and sweet potato fries. And a bucketful of some kind of gravy.
And biscuits. And a couple of jaded women who need a break from
their workaday worlds, and need to feel appreciated, and have a
little joie de vivre. But a few rounds of dominoes, a bag of
Cheetos, a coupla tokes of *Kush, some social conversation and
some Led Zeppelin is pretty good too. Gets us "cyclists" off
the streets and out o' trouble.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Bob

On Apr 5, 10:10*am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Apr 4, 10:28*pm, Bob <hunr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 4, 7:39*am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 4, 12:05 am, Bob <hunr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Mar 31, 12:00 pm, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Having other types of bikes in my collection, I'm about to get offthe
> > > > > beaten path and get either a ROAD TANDEM BIKE or a FANCY UPRIGHT
> > > > > TRIKE. Well, I like them both but the road tandem would necessarily
> > > > > put me on the road AMONG THE BEASTS all the time, while the trike I
> > > > > can use on the back streets and on a new path being built overlooking
> > > > > the ocean (cool). But I'd be tempted to ride it on the streets
> > > > > sometimes, squarely TAKING THE LANE because then I'd be more of a
> > > > > vehicle.
>
> > > > > What's your thought, I'd be safer in the trike than on the road
> > > > > tandem, or should I start planning my funerals?
>
> > > > > WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
>
> > > > The 2006 US Census estimated the total population at just under 300
> > > > million people. According to FARS data in that same year, 773 cyclists
> > > > were killed in traffic crashes. Adding pedestrian deaths there were
> > > > just 5740 non-motorist deaths from traffic crashes that year. That
> > > > would seem to contradict your view that a significant percentage of
> > > > motorists are homicidal maniacs intent on doing cyclists harm. Either
> > > > that or the overwhelming majority of that group are *extremely
> > > > incompetent* homicidal maniacs.
> > > > Pedal your bike, not your silly fearmongering.
>
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Bob Hunt
>
> > > It ain't fearmongering; it's the reality of the jungle, which is in
> > > plain view for all to see...
>
> > Some jungle. According to the National Safety Council's 2005
> > statistics your lifetime odds of dying in a car versus bike crash are
> > 1 in 4098. To put that in perspective, the same statistics put your
> > lifetime odds of dying from falling out of your bed or a chair at 1 in
> > 4225.
>
> > Regards,
> > Bob Hunt- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Yeah, but that's only if you ride your bike once a year. I took a nice
> 20mile ride and survived it... What does it prove?

I checked and rechecked the source material and couldn't find anything
saying that only once-a-year riders get killed so your assertion is
baseless.

> You are advising me to buy the tandem road bike I like and ride it
> everyday among the top predators?

If I could be sure it would end your one trick pony posts here, I'd
buy it for you myself.

>
> Hint: Check the book "It's No Accident," and you will know what
> happens when people are not paying attention to driving.-

You need a book to inform you of the hazards of inattentive driving?
Duh.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Bill Sornson

> On Apr 5, 5:22 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> was quoted as writing:

>> ...an apparent non-cyclist, wrote:> [...]

Anyone find it ironic that someone who rides a grotesque go-cart would
disparage the cyclicicity of another? LOL

Bill "sort of like all that watch spam wasting so much...you guessed it,
/time/" S.

Tom Sherman

Bill Sornson wrote:
>> On Apr 5, 5:22 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
>> was quoted as writing:
>
>>> ...an apparent non-cyclist, wrote:> [...]
>
> Anyone find it ironic that someone who rides a grotesque go-cart would
> disparage the cyclicicity of another? LOL
>
Read the original post in full context or shut up.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman

Pat, an apparent non-cyclist, but possibly a biker, wrote:
> On Apr 5, 5:22 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Pat, an apparent non-cyclist, wrote:> [...]
>
> What's this "non-cyclist" stuff? I don't know if I am or not. Too
> many semantics here for me. But the snow is off and the weather is
> warming. The ski slope up the road even closes tomorrow. So I
> started getting my bike out of winter storage. That was a nice
> feeling.
>
> I got the cob webs off of her and I just pushed the starter and she
> jumped right to life. Maybe next weekend I'll change the oil and
> install the new thermostat I just ordered.
>
If it has a motor, you are either a motorcyclist or biker, depending on
the type of machine and clothes you wear.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman

Scott M. Kozel wrote:
> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>> Scott M. Kozel wrote:
>>> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Scott M. Kozel wrote:
>>>>> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Scott M. Kozel wrote:
>>>>>>> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Pat, an apparent non-cyclist, wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The bikers in the group say we need bike lanes and camera enforcement
>>>>>>>>> and this and that. That's a HUGE investment for a relatively small
>>>>>>>>> group of people. That public investment could probably go for better
>>>>>>>>> uses.
>>>>>>>> A "biker" is someone that rides a large cruiser type motorcycle and
>>>>>>>> wears the associated clothing and accessories.
>>>>>>> That is not correct according to standard major dictionary definitions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first definition of "biker" is "a person who rides a bicycle,
>>>>>>> motorcycle, or motorbike" --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/biker
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A cyclist is someone who rides a bicycle.
>>>>>>> "Cyclist" includes bicycle and motorcycle use as well --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cyclist
>>>>>> The dictionary is wrong as concerns actual usage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Proper cyclists DO NOT refer to themselves as "bikers".
>>>>> The dictionaries represent the most commonly recognized societal usages
>>>>> of particular words, and they trump your opinions.
>>>> How many dictionary writers are proper cyclists?
>>>>
>>>> Real cyclists DO NOT refer to themselves as "bikers". Duh!
>>> Who defines what is a "proper cyclist" or "real cyclist"?
>> If you have to ask, you are obviously not one. Here is a hint - their
>> single track vehicles are NOT powered by V-Twin engines.
>
> The point is, that YOU don't get to define words for everybody.
>
I am reporting on what the actual usage is, not defining words for
everybody. DUH!

> The dictionary definitions trump your static worldview.

I can recall several instances where clueless local newspaper reporters
referred to bicyclists as "bikers", which was worth a good laugh for the
bicyclists.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman

Jens Müller wrote:
> Pat schrieb:
>> That's why bikes and horse and pedestrians are banned from highways.
>
> a) What is your definition of "highway"? The meaning as in "National
> Highway System" or as in "highway code", i.e. "public street"?
>
> b) What country are you talking about?

Pat appears to be using "highway" as a synonym for "controlled access
road", which is NOT the common US usage. For example, the Federal
Highway Administration does NOT limit itself to controlled access roads.

Controlled access roads with minimum speeds in the US are referred to as
freeways (or tollways if there is a fee for use). Typically, bicycles
are prohibited from these roads, except in certain western states that
allow bicycles on freeways due to the lack of any reasonable alternative
route.

In most US states, there are county highways that are maintained by
local agencies. Some of these are two-lane roads perfectly suitable for
the bicyclist to ride on. There are state highways, which can vary from
two-lane roads with light traffic to freeways that prohibit slow moving
traffic.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman

Pat, with a non-standard use of "highway", wrote:
> On Apr 5, 5:37 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Pat, vehicular bully, wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> Meanwhile, if you feel unsafe, look within. Are you doing anything
>>> that you shouldn't be or that's unpredictable? I see more of that
>>> with people on bikes than with drivers. Drivers are a fairly
>>> predictable group. You know about what speed they are going, how wide
>>> the lane is and how wide the car is. If you are obstructing them,
>>> then get out of the way. You need to be able to keep up with traffic
>>> if you're going to be on the road.
>> So might makes right, eh?
>>
>> Can I put a ram on the front of a dump-truck and go plowing through city
>> traffic that is going more slowly than I want to go?
>>
>
> You entirely missed the point. The point is, it appears that the
> poster is scared and hesitant and therefore probably is unsafe in
> traffic.

Or is an "Internet crusader".

> If you do things that are unpredictable, you will have more
> trouble. If you go slower or faster than traffic, it is dangerous.
> That's why bikes and horse and pedestrians are banned from highways.

Really? In the state I live in, bicycles, horses and pedestrians are
allowed on every county highway (officially labeled as "County Trunk
Highways"), almost every state highway (the only exceptions being a few
controlled access routes) and most of the US Postal Highways (except for
the few controlled access sections). The same is true of most states.

Some western states even allow bicycles and other slow moving vehicles
to use the shoulder on rural sections of Interstate Highways.

> And, if you go UNDER 45 on an expressway, you can be ticketed for
> that, too, if everyone else is going at road speed. The gov't has
> recognized that going too slow is dangerous. If you can't keep up
> with traffic, get off the road. If you can, and you are still having
> problems, then look within.

The original poster was not talking about controlled access roads. Sheesh!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman

Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Apr 5, 10:10 am, ComandanteBanana wrote:
>> [...]
>> You are advising me to buy the tandem road bike I like and ride it
>> everyday among the top predators?
>
> If I could be sure it would end your one trick pony posts here, I'd
> buy it for you myself.
[...]

LOL!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Valued Corporate #120,345 Employee (B A R R Y)

On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 22:09:09 -0400, "Scott M. Kozel"
<kozelsm@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>Who defines what is a "proper cyclist" or "real cyclist"?


Manners, posture, and clothing!

When I'm riding properly, I say "pardon me" as I turn, signal with my
pinkie out, never slump in the saddle, and wear formal clothing. <G>

I really don't care if someone calls me a "biker", "cyclist", "guy on
a bicycle", as I'm enjoying myself.