Where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters andsidewalks

Tim McNamara

In article <66j50mF2k3ij7U4@mid.individual.net>,
"Dave Larrington" <smert.spamionam@privacy.net> wrote:

> In
> news:5c225b35-5f40-41ff-849f-6d1780b9dbe6@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com
> , ComandanteBanana <nolionnoproblem@yahoo.com> tweaked the
> Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
> > That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters
> > and sidewalks.
>
> Remind me again why BRITONS should care?

Because we're a big export market for British, Irish and Scottish beers?
The more we ride our bikes, the thirstier we get. ;-)

Roger Zoul

"Pat" <intex@tmail.com> wrote in message
news:66kdcjF2kk4o0U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> ">>
>>> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
>>> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to
>>> say is that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal
>>> maniacs bent on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real
>>> world as you and I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>>>
>>> Pat in TX
>>>
>>
>> You smell a troll? This place is stinking to the high heavens with this
>> troll and his buddies.
>
> Aw. and you used to be so mellow! Those trolls are frazzlin' you out, Rog!
>
>
> Pat in TX
>>

I guess this particular troll did more than others....his posts start out
seeming normal and then just keep coming like a broken record repeating over
and over....heck, if he's so afraid of cars, then don't ride. If he can't
beat 'em, join 'em. Or shut the hell up about it.

donquijote1954

On Apr 15, 3:29 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> In article <66j50mF2k3ij...@mid.individual.net>,
> "Dave Larrington" <smert.spamio...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > In
> >news:5c225b35-5f40-41ff-849f-6d1780b9dbe6@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com
> > , ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> tweaked the
> > Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
> > > That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters
> > > and sidewalks.
>
> > Remind me again why BRITONS should care?
>
> Because we're a big export market for British, Irish and Scottish beers?
> The more we ride our bikes, the thirstier we get. ;-)

That's right. They are making us pee too much!

Something difficult to do when you are riding a bike and there's no
bushes around.

Hey, don't get me wrong, it's not that I want the Bushes around
anymore.

donquijote1954

On Apr 15, 2:57*pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 15, 10:45 am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 14, 10:27 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > Pat (who?), Jack May, and "donquijote" all manage to be very wrong,
> > > although the first two come at it from a different direction than our
> > > "banana" boy.
>
> > DonQuijote and ComandanteBanana are the same thing.
>
> I'm aware of that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > No, you won't get killed riding a bike, despite what Jack and Pat
> > > claim. *No, the world doesn't have to be transformed to make bicycling
> > > safe, despite donquijote's paranoid whining.
>
> > > All three of you need to learn a lot about the real data. The fatality
> > > rate from bicycling is infinitesmal. *There are roughly fifteen
> > > million miles ridden between bike fatalities. *People who cycle
> > > regularly have been shown to live longer than typical motorists. *Many
> > > researchers have found that the risk of cycling is less, per hour,
> > > than the risk of motoring, or less than the risk of walking near
> > > traffic.
>
> > Man, you need to go in the jungle more often... "Riding a bicycle in
> > peak-hour traffic is at best harrowing, and at worst downright
> > treacherous."...
>
> I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
>
> I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
> Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
> is. *Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic. *Unlike
> you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
> of danger. *And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
> "Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
>
> I've commuted by bike since 1977. *I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
> and in peak rush hour in many of them. *I've ridden in at least eight
> countries. *I've done many self-supported tours, *up to 4000 miles.
> I've ridden for nearly 40 years. *In all that time, my only on-road
> injury was one skinned knee. *Off road, add one incident where I
> scraped my hands a bit.
>
> You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it. *If
> you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it. *Ride where you're
> comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.
>
> - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...

I even bet you that riding a bike on America's roads is more dangerous
than doing service in Iraq.

We have to do the numbers, but I think that that's more true than
Obama's statement that soldiers in Iraq are safer than kids in
Chicago. At least I see more terrorists on our roads.

donquijote1954

On Apr 15, 4:29 pm, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Apr 15, 2:57 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
> > Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
> > is. Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic. Unlike
> > you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
> > of danger. And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
> > "Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
>
> > I've commuted by bike since 1977. I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
> > and in peak rush hour in many of them. I've ridden in at least eight
> > countries. I've done many self-supported tours, up to 4000 miles.
> > I've ridden for nearly 40 years. In all that time, my only on-road
> > injury was one skinned knee. Off road, add one incident where I
> > scraped my hands a bit.
>
> > You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it. If
> > you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it. Ride where you're
> > comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.
>
> > - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...
>
> I even bet you that riding a bike on America's roads is more dangerous
> than doing service in Iraq.
>
> We have to do the numbers, but I think that that's more true than
> Obama's statement that soldiers in Iraq are safer than kids in
> Chicago. At least I see more terrorists on our roads. - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

OK, here I respond to my own challenge, since there's been no
challengers so far...

Some numbers on nationwide bicycle fatalities from 1975-2002:
"660 bicyclists were killed in crashes with motor vehicles in 2002."

So, since the deployment in Iraq accounts to 150,000 or so, we have to
prove that the same number of people riding bikes on heavy traffic
have a greater death toll. Of course, this doesn't apply to well
maintained bike paths where the beautiful people live nor to those
living in the actual Green Zone in Baghdad.

And also you have to take into account that bikers are not wearing
heavy armor...

donquijote1954

How sad, you have a strong idea and then you die because you were
wrong all along. Case in point is how Crocodile Hunter was killed by a
manta ray while trying to prove that sea monsters were quite
harmless... No, they are not. I say, "NEVER TRUST THE BEAST!" A basic
concept in the jungle.

Here's another example of people who die because of their wrong
ideas...

Is Cycling Dangerous?
Cyclist Ken Kifer uses statistics from a variety of reliable sources
to show that bicycling is not as dangerous as people often think it
is. I think his number of cyclists is a bit optimisitic, and that
makes the fractional risk a bit too small in some cases, but overall
he makes a good argument that cycling is not that risky. Sadly, Ken
was killed by a drunken driver in September 2003 while he was
bicycling.

donquijote1954

Well, America ain't alone in the law of the jungle. Even civilized
Canada suffers from it. But the solution is the same...

"if the cops do something about how much worse driving has gotten in
the city, even stupid humans will play nice to avoid consequences,
which they won't do just because it is right."


Cyclist Stabs Motorist
Posted November 2nd, 2007 by vic in road rage
The Toronto Star is reporting that a cyclist stabbed a motorist with a
screwdriver after a road rage incident. It happened this morning at
around 9:45am at the corner of College and McCaul.

A few more details on the City News website. They believe the cyclist
was a "courier".

It hurts me to read about incidents like this. I have no idea what
caused this altercation, or why the cyclist felt it was necessary to
stab the motorist. I was honked at and flipped off by a motorist on
Dundas St. this morning, then almost nailed by a left-turning car near
my work. But even when bad things happen to me on the road, I never
even come close to wanting to stab someone.

All this madness on the roads needs to end.

....

cars as weapons
On November 2nd, 2007 tanya says:
Definitely its not acceptable to stab a motorist over a road rage
altercation. Its not acceptable either to threaten them by waving a
knife in their face.

But yet when motorists get "road rage" they have a deadly weapon right
under their right foot. I've encountered motorists who will try to
intimidate me by gunning for me, then swerving at the last minute. Its
sad that this kind of knife waving is all too socially "acceptable".

....

Human nature is s%$#
On November 2nd, 2007 Aidan says:
Who cares what the guy's job, or lack of, was. He went postal. The
fact that every cyclist commenting here has likely fantasized about
doing something similar points to what we put up with. Human nature is
s%$#, but if the cops do something about how much worse driving has
gotten in the city, even stupid humans will play nice to avoid
consequences, which they won't do just because it is right.

http://www.ibiketo.ca/node/1735

Bill Z.

donquijote1954 <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> writes:

> Well, America ain't alone in the law of the jungle. Even civilized
> Canada suffers from it. But the solution is the same...

Fortunately it isn't the same - here it could have involved a gun
and a much higher chance of a fatality.

> Cyclist Stabs Motorist
> Posted November 2nd, 2007 by vic in road rage
> The Toronto Star is reporting that a cyclist stabbed a motorist with a
> screwdriver after a road rage incident. It happened this morning at
> around 9:45am at the corner of College and McCaul.
>
> A few more details on the City News website. They believe the cyclist
> was a "courier".
>
> It hurts me to read about incidents like this. I have no idea what
> caused this altercation, or why the cyclist felt it was necessary to
> stab the motorist. I was honked at and flipped off by a motorist on
> Dundas St. this morning, then almost nailed by a left-turning car near
> my work. But even when bad things happen to me on the road, I never
> even come close to wanting to stab someone.

I was in one incident (fortunately no injuries or crashes) in which
an irate driver passed me in very light traffic on a perfectly straight
road, and then, when the road went from 4 lanes to 2, he tried to
close the gap between us and would slam on his breaks, repeating this
behavior 3 times. I managed to avoid an accident, but it was very
close.

I got his license number and reported it to the police. With the reaction
I got from the f___tards in the DA's office, coupled with the lies and
run-arounds, I can see why someone might react the way this Canadian
cyclist did. If society wants people to do the "right" thing and let
the criminal justice system handle it, the criminal justice system has
to uphold its part of the bargain.

BTW, the driver admitted to the braking. His excuse was that I was
supposedly going 30 in a 25 zone and he couldn't outrun me, but I
was blocking traffic anyway. And that was on a knobby-tired mountain
bike on basically level ground.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

Tom Sherman

ComandanteBanana wrote:
> On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <in...@tmail.com> wrote:
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
>> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
>> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
>> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
>> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>>
>> Pat in TX
>
> I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
> side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
> live in the boondocks.

WRONG!!!

"Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.

Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman

Roger Zoul wrote:
> "Pat" <intex@tmail.com> wrote in message
> news:66kdcjF2kk4o0U1@mid.individual.net...
>> ">>
>>>> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
>>>> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to
>>>> say is that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal
>>>> maniacs bent on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real
>>>> world as you and I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>>>>
>>>> Pat in TX
>>>>
>>> You smell a troll? This place is stinking to the high heavens with this
>>> troll and his buddies.
>> Aw. and you used to be so mellow! Those trolls are frazzlin' you out, Rog!
>>
>>
>> Pat in TX
>
> I guess this particular troll did more than others....his posts start out
> seeming normal and then just keep coming like a broken record repeating over
> and over....heck, if he's so afraid of cars, then don't ride. If he can't
> beat 'em, join 'em. Or shut the hell up about it.
>
"donquixote1954" aka "ComandanteBanana" is getting as repetitive and
boring as Mr. Ed the Grate aka The Troll or Worthington.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tadej Brezina

Eric Vey wrote:

> Jack May wrote:
>
>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:b177ae18-758f-43e6-9991-b37f2b57ac8d@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Apr 14, 5:49 pm, <h> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ComandanteBanana" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:e09cfb36-654a-4f72-96fd-277ae5ce690c@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>
>>
>>> Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
>>> more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
>>> strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.
>>
>>
>> It's an evolution game where the smart survive. Trying to win the
>> Darwin prize is not smart.
>>
>
> When gas gets expensive enough, even Jack will be walking. His whole
> outlook will change. Right now, only "poor" people walk and get mown
> down by drivers, but wealth is relative.

Didn't we read some days back in the trike thread, that he IS A CYCLIST?
T.
--
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it.”
<Upton Sinclair in The Jungle>

Pat

On Apr 15, 10:16*pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> ComandanteBanana wrote:
> > On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <in...@tmail.com> wrote:
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
> >> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
> >> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
> >> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as youand
> >> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>
> >> Pat in TX
>
> > I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
> > side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
> > live in the boondocks.
>
> WRONG!!!
>
> "Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
> New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
>
> Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing. What's up with that? It's
calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
and a fabulous lifestyle. What's wrong with that?

Besides, boodocks is falling out of use. It is usually referred to as
'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
York". Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
"upstate" aren't redundant. Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
Rochester and Syracuse. Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.

ComandanteBanana

On Apr 15, 8:26*pm, nob...@nospam.pacbell.net (Bill Z.) wrote:

> > It hurts me to read about incidents like this. I have no idea what
> > caused this altercation, or why the cyclist felt it was necessary to
> > stab the motorist. I was honked at and flipped off by a motorist on
> > Dundas St. this morning, then almost nailed by a left-turning car near
> > my work. But even when bad things happen to me on the road, I never
> > even come close to wanting to stab someone.
>
> I was in one incident (fortunately no injuries or crashes) in which
> an irate driver passed me in very light traffic on a perfectly straight
> road, and then, when the road went from 4 lanes to 2, he tried to
> close the gap between us and would slam on his breaks, repeating this
> behavior 3 times. *I managed to avoid an accident, but it was very
> close.
>
> I got his license number and reported it to the police. With the reaction
> I got from the f___tards in the DA's office, coupled with the lies and
> run-arounds, I can see why someone might react the way this Canadian
> cyclist did. *If society wants people to do the "right" thing and let
> the criminal justice system handle it, the criminal justice system has
> to uphold its part of the bargain.
>
> BTW, the driver admitted to the braking. *His excuse was that I was
> supposedly going 30 in a 25 zone and he couldn't outrun me, but I
> was blocking traffic anyway. *And that was on a knobby-tired mountain
> bike on basically level ground.
>
> --
> My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

I forgot to get his plate, but for the reasons above, I don't think
there would have been justice --and definitely I'd have gone through a
lot of trouble.

I have another strategy in dealing with the beasts and it's based on a
saying of mine, "My struggle is not against the puppet, but against
the puppeteer"...

Who's the puppeteer who could change things and GIVE RESPECT to the
cyclists? The police, the politicians, the president? Or all of them?
The puppet only takes life in an atmosphere where the cyclists are
equivalent to a stray dog. Even if you screwdrive him, it's not worth
it. Never waste your time with the puppet. Go for the puppeteer. And
that's what I'm doing here.

ComandanteBanana

On Apr 16, 9:11*am, Pat <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote:
> On Apr 15, 10:16*pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > ComandanteBanana wrote:
> > > On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <in...@tmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> - Frank Krygowski
> > >> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
> > >> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has tosay is
> > >> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
> > >> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
> > >> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>
> > >> Pat in TX
>
> > > I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
> > > side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
> > > live in the boondocks.
>
> > WRONG!!!
>
> > "Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
> > New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
>
> > Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
>
> > --
> > Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> > The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
> You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing. *What's up with that? *It's
> calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
> and a fabulous lifestyle. *What's wrong with that?
>
> Besides, boodocks is falling out of use. *It is usually referred to as
> 'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
> York". *Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
> "upstate" aren't redundant. *Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
> Rochester and Syracuse. *Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
> from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That will overcrowded soon as the world population explodes and the
hungry masses from the Third World come to America by boatloads. They
are already doing it from Haiti, where the situation is desperate.
See, that's a place where the law of the jungle wiped out all the
resources and people are rioting now.

Food crisis stirs talk in Congress

WASHINGTON, Apr 16, 2008 (The Miami Herald - McClatchy-Tribune
Information Services via COMTEX) -- -- Lawmakers on Tuesday demanded
immediate debt relief for Haiti and the release of millions of dollars
in food aid to help ease the Caribbean nation's struggle with soaring
food prices.

...

"A fight for our moral authority is at stake here," Jackson said,
adding that immigration rules for Haitians should be relaxed. "We
cannot have one set of rules for Cubans and another for Haitians."

Rep. Janice Schakowsky, D-Ill., said the $96 million for Haiti
amounted to what the United States spent in seven hours in Iraq.

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site...20News/1374788/

(Hey, this goes to show that I'm not repeating stuff here. What you
want me to talk about next?)