Where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters andsidewalks

Pat

On Apr 23, 4:56*pm, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Apr 23, 3:42*pm, Pat <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 23, 11:17*am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 22, 10:38*am, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 22, 8:52 am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Apr 21, 7:25 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > Even someone as fearful as you should be able to deal with the
> > > > > > occasional skinned knee. *So again: *quit whining.
>
> > > > > I still remember that guy that cited statistics like you, only to be
> > > > > killed by a drunk driver.
>
> > > > Yes, and I've had at least four friends killed while riding in motor
> > > > vehicles. *I've had four *close family members seriously injuredin
> > > > car crashes, one of whom is mildly crippled for life.
>
> > > > For every bicycling fatality in the US, there are roughly 8 pedestrian
> > > > fatalities, roughly 60 motorist fatalities, and roughly 1000 heart
> > > > fatalities.
>
> > > > Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
> > > > possibilities thereof. *You go out of your way to make cycling sound
> > > > much more dangerous than it is.
>
> > > > Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike. *Who pays your
> > > > salary? *Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?
>
> > > > - Frank Krygowski
>
> > > Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
> > > saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it. That's why
> > > I speak about "the revolution" and coming out of the jungle. You, on
> > > the other hand, want to deny something so obvious that you look either
> > > out of touch with reality or have an agenda in mind, and offer no hope
> > > other than rider training or mental toughness. How about the stupid
> > > drivers and the stupid traffic laws out there? Haven't you noticed the
> > > few cyclists that dare commute to work in America (a pitiful .4% of
> > > the total commuting population) mostly ride on the sidewalks? So *YOU*
> > > are the one defending the status quo, one where GM and Exxon thrive,
> > > one where size matters, and rats run for their lives...
>
> > > The Art of Urban Cycling: Lessons from the Street
>
> > > "The bicyclist is under attack from all directions - the streets are
> > > ragged, the air is poison, and the drivers are angry. As if that
> > > weren’t enough, the urban cyclist must carry the weight of history
> > > along on every ride.
> > > After a brief heyday at the turn of the twentieth century, American
> > > cyclists fell out of the social consciousness, becoming an
> > > afterthought when our cities were planned and built. Cyclists today
> > > are left to navigate, like rats in a sewer, through a hard and
> > > unsympathetic world that was not made for them. Yet, with the proper
> > > attitude and a bit of knowledge, urban cyclists can thrive in this
> > > hostile environment."
>
> > >http://www.amazon.com/Art-Urban-Cyc.../dp/0762727837/....
>
> > > And we need to fix the sewer...- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Here's a hint for you. *YOU WILL NEVER FIX ANYTHING.
>
> > First off; many, many people would argue that things are not broken.
>
> > Second off, you can't possibly "win" because you cannot see the other
> > persons point of view. *Therefore there is no compromise. *Therefore
> > no one will listen to you. *People hate zealots.
>
> > Third off, people who are going to change things don't spend every
> > waking hour writing in newsgroups. *They get off their lazy butts and
> > do things. *They are active for change -- not just running their
> > mouths.
>
> > Fourthly, change required passion. *You don't have the ability to
> > persuade people. *You just want to tell everyone how much better you
> > are than everyone else.
>
> > Finally, to get things done requires working with other people. It
> > requires communication skills. *It required negotiation. *It required
> > the devotion of a great deal of time and money. *It required low
> > friends in high places. *You seem to have none of them. *You will just
> > remain a lonely, outspoken guy in spandex.
>
> > If you want to succeed, go get your meds adjusted.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I'm so glad you came out of your depressed life in the boondocks. It's
> boring, ain't it?

What makes you think I have a depressed life? It's a nice place to
live. Remember, YOU are the one always bitching about where YOU live,
not me. I like it here.

"The weather is here and I wish you were beautiful."

>
> But you think that because you made it (?), others must survive in the
> asphalt jungle where they live, and if they don't like it, move to the
> boondocks!

Sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say.

>
> My job though is not that of a politician, who have friend$ in very
> have place$, but that of telling you what's wrong to the system and
> how to fix it. The examples I give are real: the Swiss, the Danish,
> the British who are explaining here how much they have advanced in the
> last few years.

If they are so wonderful, go live there. Please. I'll start the
collection to buy you a one-way ticket.

See, yet more places that are more wonderful than where you are.

Look at all of the wonderful biking places of the world. Switzerland,
Denmark, England, NYC, SF, the rural area I live in. Guess what they
all have in common. Ready? YOU DON'T LIVE THERE. Get the hint?

>
> Before you used to live in ignorance, but now you choose to remain
> ignorant. Good luck with the racoons and SUVs!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The raccoons and the squirrels and the deer and the antelope are all
doing fine up here. Couldn't ask for anything more. Thank you for
your concern.

My motorcycle just got a clean bill of health -- it passed it's
inspection. So I'm looking forward to another season. But I don't
plan on having all of the troubles you had.

You know, a few years ago I took a motorcycle safety course from the
Motorcycle Safety Foundation. It was pretty informative and taught a
lot of good things about keep out of problems before they happened.
Maybe you should look into the bicycle version of that. If one
doesn't exist, maybe you should take the motorcycle version and learn
a thing or two about riding. I have ridden my whole life and still
learned some things at the course (plus got 10% off my car insurance
rates!!!).

frkrygow@gmail.com

On Apr 24, 10:42 am, Pat <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote:
>
> You know, a few years ago I took a motorcycle safety course from the
> Motorcycle Safety Foundation. It was pretty informative and taught a
> lot of good things about keep out of problems before they happened.
> Maybe you should look into the bicycle version of that. If one
> doesn't exist, maybe you should take the motorcycle version and learn
> a thing or two about riding. I have ridden my whole life and still
> learned some things at the course (plus got 10% off my car insurance
> rates!!!).

The bicycle version does exist. See http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/education/index.php

Yes, bicyclists who have ridden for decades, and who think themselves
experts, will still learn enough to make the course worthwhile. And
it's fun, too.

- Frank Krygowski

frkrygow@gmail.com

On Apr 23, 11:17 am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Apr 22, 10:38 am, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> > For every bicycling fatality in the US, there are roughly 8 pedestrian
> > fatalities, roughly 60 motorist fatalities, and roughly 1000 heart
> > fatalities.
>
> > Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
> > possibilities thereof. You go out of your way to make cycling sound
> > much more dangerous than it is.
>
> > Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike. Who pays your
> > salary? Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?
>
> Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
> saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it.

You are doing NOTHING to fix it.

You are ignoring data that shows cycling is quite safe. You are doing
all you can to make cycling sound so dangerous that nobody should ever
do it. You are scaring people away from cycling.

And why? To bring about some dream world where cars are outlawed, and/
or separate bike paths lead everywhere you wish to ride? If that's
your plan, it's deluded. In fact, it's ludicrous.

The more people believe your whining and crying, the fewer people will
cycle. If cycling drops, governments will have _less_ incentive to do
anything to make it more pleasant. (Think: How many equestrian trails
has your state installed parallel to existing roads? And why should
they, when there are so few people using horses for transportation?)

You are NOT among those contributing to a solution. You are firmly in
the camp that contributes toward the problem. Your contribution is
your constant "DANGER!!! DANGER!!!" whining and wailing.

It seems to me that you've got a large group of respondents here
telling you that you are thoroughly foolish. I see nobody saying
otherwise (although, admittedly, there are contributors whose posts I
don't read).

If your whining strategy made sense, you'd be gaining supporters. But
you are not. So quit displaying your foolishness. Quit sounding like
a deluded, paranoid crybaby.

And quit discouraging bicycling. Bicycling is NOT very dangerous. It
does us no good to pretend it is.

- Frank Krygowski

ComandanteBanana

On Apr 24, 10:42*am, Pat <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote:

> You know, a few years ago I took a motorcycle safety course from the
> Motorcycle Safety Foundation. *It was pretty informative and taught a
> lot of good things about keep out of problems before they happened.
> Maybe you should look into the bicycle version of that. *If one
> doesn't exist, maybe you should take the motorcycle version and learn
> a thing or two about riding. *I have ridden my whole life and still
> learned some things at the course (plus got 10% off my car insurance
> rates!!!).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

And what are you doing here giving opinionated advice if you hate
cyclists? Why don't you go and give a bear hug to the bears? Beware of
predators though. I ride among them, and I tell you never to trust the
beast.

ComandanteBanana

On Apr 24, 11:18*am, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 23, 11:17 am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 22, 10:38 am, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > For every bicycling fatality in the US, there are roughly 8 pedestrian
> > > fatalities, roughly 60 motorist fatalities, and roughly 1000 heart
> > > fatalities.
>
> > > Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
> > > possibilities thereof. *You go out of your way to make cycling sound
> > > much more dangerous than it is.
>
> > > Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike. *Who pays your
> > > salary? *Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?
>
> > Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
> > saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it.
>
> You are doing NOTHING to fix it.
>
> You are ignoring data that shows cycling is quite safe. *You are doing
> all you can to make cycling sound so dangerous that nobody should ever
> do it. *You are scaring people away from cycling.
>
> And why? *To bring about some dream world where cars are outlawed, and/
> or separate bike paths lead everywhere you wish to ride? *If that's
> your plan, it's deluded. *In fact, it's ludicrous.

Your agenda is coming through. I haven't said I want to ban cars, just
have a fair share of the road.

Who do you lobby for, bikes or SUVs?

>
> The more people believe your whining and crying, the fewer people will
> cycle. *If cycling drops, governments will have _less_ incentive to do
> anything to make it more pleasant. *(Think: How many equestrian trails
> has your state installed parallel to existing roads? *And why should
> they, when there are so few people using horses for transportation?)
>
> You are NOT among those contributing to a solution. *You are firmly in
> the camp that contributes toward the problem. *Your contribution is
> your constant "DANGER!!! DANGER!!!" whining and wailing.

Yep, "LION, LION!!!" and now let's put the beast in the cage.

"The wild, cruel beast is not behind the bars of the cage. He is in
front of it" -Axel Munthe

>
> It seems to me that you've got a large group of respondents here
> telling you that you are thoroughly foolish. *I see nobody saying
> otherwise (although, admittedly, there are contributors whose posts I
> don't read).
>
> If your whining strategy made sense, you'd be gaining supporters. *But
> you are not. *So quit displaying your foolishness. *Quit sounding like
> a deluded, paranoid crybaby.
>
> And quit discouraging bicycling. *Bicycling is NOT very dangerous. *It
> does us no good to pretend it is.

Take a tour through the American jungle, and you will see the monkeys
riding on the sidewalks. Plenty of them where I live (probably 10 to 1
that rides on the road properly).

ComandanteBanana

Hey, I've found that cycling is very much like survival: PRAY FOR THE
BEST, BUT BE READY FOR THE WORST.

Some fools around here claim riding a bike is fine if you have the
mental attitude, with little concern for safety. If you know some
predator are out there (you only need one) may harm you, you better
not share the road with them. Clearly the solution is separation or
speed regulation, but they don't want either one.

It's like going into bear country with a pot of honey...

marika

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:e804d732-7ef2-4748-9daa-0644a1b83b0f@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

>What makes you think I have a depressed life?

SOUNDS OK do you need it in writing.,


>It's a nice place to
live. Remember, YOU are the one always bitching about where YOU live,
not me. I like it here.

>"The weather is here and I wish you were beautiful."

>
> But you think that because you made it (?), others must survive in the
> asphalt jungle where they live, and if they don't like it, move to the
> boondocks!

>Sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say.

>
> My job though is not that of a politician, who have friend$ in very
> have place$, but that of telling you what's wrong to the system and
> how to fix it. The examples I give are real: the Swiss, the Danish,
> the British who are explaining here how much they have advanced in the
> last few years.

>If they are so wonderful, go live there. Please. I'll start the
collection to buy you a one-way ticket.

>See, yet more places that are more wonderful than where you are.
>
Look at all of the wonderful biking places of the world. Switzerland,
Denmark, England, NYC, SF, the rural area I live in. Guess what they
all have in common. Ready? YOU DON'T LIVE THERE. Get the hint?

>
> Before you used to live in ignorance, but now you choose to remain
> ignorant. Good luck with the racoons and SUVs!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

>The raccoons and the squirrels and the deer and the antelope are all
doing fine up here. Couldn't ask for anything more. Thank you for
your concern.

>My motorcycle just got a clean bill of health -- it passed it's
inspection. So I'm looking forward to another season. But I don't
plan on having all of the troubles you had.
>You know, a few years ago I took a motorcycle safety course from the
>Motorcycle Safety Foundation.

you have to start with the factory and their quality control

the inspector visit says only that you will have to from an omen point of
view
really enforce the new powers they gave you like control over hiring,
because
tho they may get sloppy youu know you won't

>It was pretty informative and taught a
>lot of good things about keep out of problems before they happened.

pfft shut up


>Maybe you should look into the bicycle version of that.

this is good


> If one
>doesn't exist, maybe you should take the motorcycle version and learn
>a thing or two about riding.

rat on (animal lab joke)

>I have ridden my whole life and still
learned some things at the course (plus got 10% off my car insurance
rates!!!).

blah blah blah not interesting, if you are happy DUDE go for it


mk5000

" Hmm, in the various Faust versions, Mephistopheles is both tempter and
captive of Faust. Mephistopheles makes a deal with God to allow him to
tempt Faust but in visiting Faust he is trapped by Faust's spell (or
allows himself to be trapped)."-Elsie-

Tom Keats

In article <TPJPj.56668$vr3.3999@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,
"Amy Blankenship" <Amy_nospam@magnoliamultimedia.com> writes:
>
> "ComandanteBanana" <nolionnoproblem@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:dd72484a-a57f-413d-8274-30302266c5e4@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 22, 12:35 pm, "Amy Blankenship"
> <Amy_nos...@magnoliamultimedia.com> wrote:
>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:8cdkuf.ci.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
>>> Cats have a dry sense of humor. Not many people understand them...- Hide
>>> quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Dogs hate them like drivers hate cyclists.
> -----------
> I guess my dogs didn't get the memo.

Perhaps strangely, cats & bunnies can get along
just fine, too.

My last dog suffered a stroke while chasing a stray
cat and jumping the fence. I took the stray cat in.
The cat and the dog subsequently became best buddies,
although the dog came away with a crooked, Moby Dick
face after that.

That cat was the one who'd kill a dozen mice in a
single night and leave them on display in a neat row
at the bottom of the back stairs, all lined-up
head-to-head and tail-to-tail. He took pride in
his work.

He preferred his Purina Cat Chow to be soaked with
a little bit of warm water so he could pretend they
were alive. He'd growl at those bits and fling them
all over the place until he ate them. But he never
left a mess on the floor.

He liked it when I didn't shave for a couple of days,
'cuz rubbing his fur against my copious whiskers somehow
felt good to him. (Felt like Velcro to me.)

He's the one who was run-over by a car. Whomever
killed him should have some bad karma on his ass,
'cuz that driver snuffed a Nice Guy.


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Tom Sherman

Pat in Upstate New York wrote:
> [...]
> The raccoons and the squirrels and the deer and the antelope are all
> doing fine up here.[...]

Antelope?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

ComandanteBanana

On Apr 25, 5:19*am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> Pat in Upstate New York wrote:
>
> > [...]
> > The raccoons and the squirrels and the deer and the antelope are all
> > doing fine up here.[...]
>
> Antelope?
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Yep, antelopes for the lions that live in the boondocks.

They ride motorcycle and put their nose where doesn't belong.

Pat

On Apr 25, 5:19*am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> Pat in Upstate New York wrote:
>
> > [...]
> > The raccoons and the squirrels and the deer and the antelope are all
> > doing fine up here.[...]
>
> Antelope?
>

Okay, no altelope locally; but remember the old song "home on the
range". Since I was using "deer"; I had to use antelope because of
the lyrics "... where the deer and the antelope play...."

Tom Keats

In article <211ee46e-0451-43f1-80c7-e29cd9488fa5@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
Pat <groups@artisticphotography.us> writes:
> On Apr 25, 5:19*am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Pat in Upstate New York wrote:
>>
>> > [...]
>> > The raccoons and the squirrels and the deer and the antelope are all
>> > doing fine up here.[...]
>>
> > Antelope?
> >
> Okay, no altelope locally; but remember the old song "home on the
> range". Since I was using "deer"; I had to use antelope because of
> the lyrics "... where the deer and the antelope play...."

from:
http://www.silver.org/humor/woodyallen.html
--
"A Woody Allen Monologue from the 1960s

'Here's a story you're not going to believe. I shot a moose once.
I was hunting in upstate New York, and I shot a moose.'"
&c.
--

So I guess you're where the deer and the moose play.

And maybe at least one Buffalo.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Pat

On Apr 26, 4:20*am, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article <211ee46e-0451-43f1-80c7-e29cd9488...@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> * * * * Pat <gro...@artisticphotography.us> writes:
>
> > On Apr 25, 5:19*am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Pat in Upstate New York wrote:
>
> >> > [...]
> >> > The raccoons and the squirrels and the deer and the antelope are all
> >> > doing fine up here.[...]
>
> > *> Antelope?
>
> > Okay, no altelope locally; but remember the old song "home on the
> > range". *Since I was using "deer"; I had to use antelope because of
> > the lyrics "... where the deer and the antelope play...."
>
> from:
> * * * *http://www.silver.org/humor/woodyallen.html
> --
> * "A Woody Allen Monologue from the 1960s
>
> *'Here's a story you're not going to believe. I shot a moose once.
> * I was hunting in upstate New York, and I shot a moose.'"
> * &c.
> --
>
> So I guess you're where the deer and the moose play.
>
> And maybe at least one Buffalo.
>

Gee, I WISH the bills played. We don't have professional football, we
have the Bills.

There are some moose around in the Adirondacks. There are some elk up
the road on a farm. Plus there are always Jackalopes around.

> cheers,
> * * * * Tom
>
> --
> Nothing is safe from me.
> I'm really at:
> tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Eric Vey

Pat wrote:

>> And maybe at least one Buffalo.
>>
>
> Gee, I WISH the bills played. We don't have professional football, we
> have the Bills.

Buffalo, the city, is about as dead as it's namesake around there. If
Pat lived in a place where the population doubled every twenty years
rather than halving every twenty, his whole outlook would be different.