Ride of Silence 2008

Simon

On May 7, 10:53 am, TimC <tconn...@no.spam.accepted.here-
astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:
> On 2008-05-06, Simon (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> > On May 6, 11:51 pm, cfsmtb <cfsmtb.38z...@no-
> > mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> >> Any police action or follow up on what actually happened?
>
> > The cops took it seriously at the time, sending out the crash
> > investigation people. I'm trying to chase up with them but having
> > trouble getting on to the relevant people...
>
> Please post back with status when it happens...
>
> Were you in the bunch?
>
> --
> TimC
> Using top down development, you never have any working code. Using bottom
> up development, you never solve the problem. -- John Kelly in debian-user

Latest on the ACT "accident": Looks like a typical effort when
cyclists are involved. His word against ours, no physical evidence
that was convincing enough apparently, so this guy who goes around
ramming fellow citizens with his car when they're in the cycle lane
then hooning off without bothering to check if the unconscious victim
is still alive, has received a WARNING for leaving the scence of an
accident. Seems you can do what you want in this country, so long as
you're behind the wheel of a car. I'm not happy. Any suggestions?

Zebee Johnstone

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 4 Jun 2008 19:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
Simon <simonadwyer@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> Latest on the ACT "accident": Looks like a typical effort when
> cyclists are involved. His word against ours, no physical evidence
> that was convincing enough apparently, so this guy who goes around
> ramming fellow citizens with his car when they're in the cycle lane
> then hooning off without bothering to check if the unconscious victim
> is still alive, has received a WARNING for leaving the scence of an
> accident. Seems you can do what you want in this country, so long as
> you're behind the wheel of a car. I'm not happy. Any suggestions?

So what do you do if a cyclist *does* wobble or swerve into a car's
path?

Can a cyclist do wrong?

Should the law be changed so that cyclists are never at fault, what
effect with this have?

Zebee

Simon

On Jun 5, 1:01 pm, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can a cyclist do wrong?
>

Yes, and unfortunately I get in trouble for saying it here all the
time. In fact I'm the guy who says cyclists need to make the first
step and clean up their act. Is your point beyond reasonable doubt?
Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that when justice is not served,
or when it's just not followed up, one can be justified in getting
angry. In this case the cyclists weren't doing anything wrong and the
evidence points to a collision in the bike lane.

Here's the background:
The left front corner of the car struck the back wheel of one bike and
the front of the one following. If the car was travelling in the lane,
parallel to the gutter, then the first guy would have had to have been
half way across the road and the other guy following his wheel. This
second rider had his forks snapped straight off and went directly onto
his head and face - barely any other bruises or scares. So the cyclist
went over the handlebars.

Two possible scenarios. 1) He had swerved into the car lane at about a
45degree angle to the road, following the wheel of the fellow in
front. 2) Or he was riding in the bike lane, parallel to the gutter.
His unconscious body ended up right next to the gutter. The week
after, the AFP investigation team went on a two week course. So the
key witnesses were not interviewed till over two weeks later.

"Should the law be changed so that cyclists are never at fault, what
effect with this have?"
My understanding is that in several European countries the onus is on
the driver of the motor vehicle to prove they weren't at fault. So
perhaps it's not all that far fetched.

cfsmtb

Has anyone contacted other groups, such as Pedal Power ACT or even a cycle-friendly local lawyer for advice? If the police seem unwilling to pursue further action, there's the option of a civil case.

Simon

On Jun 5, 1:25 pm, cfsmtb <cfsmtb.3ai...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Simon Wrote:
>
>
>
> > Latest on the ACT "accident": Looks like a typical effort when
> > cyclists are involved. His word against ours, no physical evidence
> > that was convincing enough apparently, so this guy who goes around
> > ramming fellow citizens with his car when they're in the cycle lane
> > then hooning off without bothering to check if the unconscious victim
> > is still alive, has received a WARNING for leaving the scence of an
> > accident. Seems you can do what you want in this country, so long as
> > you're behind the wheel of a car. I'm not happy. Any suggestions?
>
> Has anyone contacted other groups, such as Pedal Power ACT or even a
> cycle-friendly local lawyer for advice? If the police seem unwilling to
> pursue further action, there's the opinion of a civil case.
>
> --
> cfsmtb

We were hoping to avoid a civil case, but that will really be up to
the injured guys and their insurance companies. Apparently (according
to the AFP) the burden of proof in that case wouldn't be so onerous.
More a case of who is the most likely to be at fault, even if it's 49%
one way 51% the other.

I was disappointed that the ACT Cycling Federation didn't want to act
as an advocate for the group, given they were all ACTCF members
training for ACTCF events. But they are all volunteers and they
probably have their reasons. Pedal Power were informed by email early
on, when we still thought the driver was going to be sanctioned, but
they never followed it up. I'll send them another email today.

I guess one thing that gets me is that the AFP didn't want to even
pursue charges for not stopping, which is a pretty serious offence
when someone is injured, I thought. Given that they didn't think they
could make other charges stick despite him being fairly obviously at
fault, I thought maybe they'd want to push this one a bit harder.

Zebee Johnstone

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 4 Jun 2008 20:43:20 -0700 (PDT)
Simon <simonadwyer@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> I guess one thing that gets me is that the AFP didn't want to even
> pursue charges for not stopping, which is a pretty serious offence
> when someone is injured, I thought. Given that they didn't think they
> could make other charges stick despite him being fairly obviously at
> fault, I thought maybe they'd want to push this one a bit harder.

It does seem odd. Which means either the AFP are being complete
arseholes or there's more to it, meaning less proof than thought.

Zebee

Shane Stanley

In article
<e9e59a64-8a1c-412d-a346-f8bb487b9869@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Simon <simonadwyer@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> I guess one thing that gets me is that the AFP didn't want to even
> pursue charges for not stopping, which is a pretty serious offence
> when someone is injured, I thought.

Perhaps you should tell them someone of middle-eastern appearance was
involved -- that should get them all over the case.

--
Shane Stanley

Aeek

On 5 Jun 2008 04:23:29 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote:

>It does seem odd. Which means either the AFP are being complete
>arseholes or there's more to it, meaning less proof than thought

Someone posted on http://the-riotact.com/ of a driver throwing rocks
at other cars. Apparently the AFP weren't interested. After all, its
not real crime. ProudLocal stopped posting after that.