My Power Profile is Embarrassing

velomanct

Neglecting the different muscle contractions neccessary, I would think that 40yd time would be a good predictor of 5 sec power. And I too am interested to know what the best 40yd sprinters would be rated at as far as 5 sec power on a cycle.

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acoggan

Somewhat (but not entirely) as an aside: vertical jumping ability is more closely related to impulse (i.e., force x time) than it is to power (i.e., force x distance/time).



No idea of the exactly value, but again, there's no reason to believe that they would be over ~25 W/kg.

tonyzackery

Not necessary to get pedantic on the issue, Doc. American football types (myself included) all understand the reasoning behind testing of the vertical jump, regardless if our understanding is just a little misguided...

Wasn't looking for an exact value; but maybe an educated guess. Nonetheless, I think this athlete could/would crank out some impressive 5sec. numbers in relation to athletes from other sports - cycling included.

Thanks for your opinion...

velomanct

[QUOTE=acoggan]Somewhat (but not entirely) as an aside: vertical jumping ability is more closely related to impulse (i.e., force x time) than it is to power (i.e., force x distance/time).
QUOTE]


This would explain why I can't jump but I can sprint.

I've noticed that it takes me a second or two into a maximal effort before I really feel like I am hitting peak forces. Almost as if my legs are slow to go maximal.

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jsirabella

I still say they are wrong and you can see gains in 5 sec power because if it is anything like powerlifting most of your gains will come just from technique getting better especially if you are untrained and that can definitely be taught. Here is an article which is a part of a three month program to increase your size but the first month you solely work on technique/motor skills....same concept.

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=2082217

I always find it interesting how you can cross over between two disciplines which are totally polar opposite but you can use some of the same basic training fundamentals. Lately I have incorporated recovery workouts in my weight training which I picked up in an article and made sense simce recovery rides are the same concept.

Slow twitch, fast twitch .. the doc has cred so know guys like him who always talk in studies and such when it comes to weights also so I understand plus he has won alot of races but we are here to support and help each other not get into name calling...slow twitch guys vs. fast twitch??...on other boards they would call slow twitch guys the "pink dumbbell brigade"...they are excited when they get to those baby blues in the next few weeks....

-js

velomanct

I'm actually a member on that site, they have a lot of good articles.

I do some weights, not a lot, I do find that it is hard to carry over gains from one discipline to another. Like, I'd increase my deadlift from 200 to 365, and I wouldn't notice a difference in sprints.

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jsirabella

I know what you mean by the carry over of gains but the underlying concepts can be carried over. 1RM = FTP and work from there. In this case of 5 sec power, similar to the girl who can bench 400 at 148lbs, it is her technique and form that gives her the edge. She probably has that technique and form down to such a percise science similar to olympic lifters that it makes all the difference in her lift. There is a guy in NJ, forgot his name who benches some crazy numbers and if you look at him, he looks like joe average. It is his technique.

And yes I know when people see these numbers they run to the roids answer but trust me roids or not!!, you can not do these numbers without the motor skills trained to percision.

I am sure that can be the same way in a sprint, an untrained person can see nice gains once they get the technique and motor skills down.

-js

velomanct

Yeah and that's why I started posting on this thread. There are lots of gains to be made if people allow themselves to believe they can do it, and put their mind to it.

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acoggan

??

I never knew that sharing a tidbit of semi-relevant knowledge could be considered being "pedantic".



I'm sure they could. Heck, last time I saw Ed Coyle speak he shared a video of a member of the U of Texas women's basketball team cranking out tremendous power during Jim Martin's inertial load test, despite the fact that she didn't train for sprinting (in any form). Large, fast (twitch) muscles = high power.

john979

I still haven't seen any data from any slow twitcher who improved their 5-sec power by greater than 20%. This post is specifically regarding an individual with high Type I fiber, not "anyone."

PaulMD

I did it

But I am new to serious training since december 2006. After reading the "it's killing me" posts of Tyson I started to sport/cycle more. December 2006 I got my CycleOps Pro300PT. In Juli 2007 I got my first powertap for my roadbike. In the period july-september I had a personal best of 1008 watts for 5 seconds (with 73kg). At the end of september I started with weight training and as a warming up for my squat training (1 time/week) I also did 3 sprints on my Cycleops indoortrainer. During the winter my 5s power improved drastically (especially in the beginning).

At november 21th, 2007 I did 5s at 1207 watts (with 75kg)
At february 20th, 2008 I did 5s at 1215 watts (with 73kg)

And I don't consider myself as a fast twitcher I am still a non-sprinter and can only get those power numbers with a standing start. But lately I haven't done a single sprint as I stopped indoortraining and stopped squating.

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john979

Paul;

I would respectfully submit that your results are consistent with somebody possessing a moderate amount of FT fiber who begins a program of "serious training." We are both approx. the same weight and I have never exceeded 900 watts, and I have 5+ years of data. Dr. Coggan's numbers are similar to mine, and he has 10 years of data.

jsirabella

How did I know you were going to say that.

As soon as anyone sees the 5 sec power numbers go up passed 1,000 than they must be fast twitch. It is a winless argument as it will always go back to you are fast twitch.

Maybe the doc or someone else can enlighten me and let me know how do we really no someone is fast twitch or slow twitch. It seems to me that everyone has both types. Is there a more scientific way to see if someone is more slow twitch than fast twitch other than his results from a physical test?

Can we actually take a sample from someone or xray someone and they can analyze it? I have no idea and just grasping here.

On a different note saw your post about your ailment and hope you will be able to recover. Do not much about John but hope it all works out.

-js



-js

PaulMD

I can take a biopsy (or let a colleague do it) and sent it to the laboratory here

Then I will know the answer. Hmmm, probably I already know the answer and I am not going to puncture myself to know it for sure . Probably a low amount of fast twitch fibers and a lot of slow twitch.

I don't know the exact definition of a slowtwitcher but I am definitely more a slowtwitcher than a fasttwitcher. As a student I have done a 6month period of dedicated weight training/body building with a friend of mine. I composed a training and eating program for us both. He grew and became very strong. I increased my strength but didn't add any muscle mass.

I have to agree with velomanct that all systems are trainable, and performance can increase with 20%. Sprinters can train endurance. Endurance athletes can train their sprint performance. But the problem is that the slow twitch endurance athletes hardly follow a sprint specific training schedule. It's no fun to train hard and see that an untrained person is much faster or stronger than you. Some people can bench press 60kg without training for it, some can do even more without training. I started with 25kg and after 6 months of hard working I could bench press 50kg. And with that I was still the weakest person in the gym. it's just genetics and the composition of fast vs slow twitch muscle fibers.

An indication about slow vs fast twitch fibers is maybe the power profile. But the power profile is influenced a lot by training, so I think the training plan en the power profile com can give an indication.

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My latest power profile: 5SP: 16.3w/kg | 1MP: 7.7w/kg | 5MP 5.8w/kg | FTP 4.7w/kg
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